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      On 1/25/23 16:12, Simon McVittie wrote:
      <br>
      <blockquote type="cite" style="color: #007cff;">On Wed, 25 Jan
        2023 at 15:10:52 -0500, Rann Bar-On wrote:
        <br>
        <blockquote type="cite" style="color: #007cff;">gnome-core 43+1
          depends on pipewire-audio, which conflicts with
          <br>
          pulseaudio, making gnome-core uninstallable with pulseaudio.
          <br>
        </blockquote>
        It is intentional that the default audio setup for GNOME is
        Pipewire, and
        <br>
        it is intentional that users upgrading from Debian 11 to 12
        should usually
        <br>
        get PulseAudio replaced by Pipewire during that upgrade (see
        #1020249).
        <br>
      </blockquote>
      Ah! I was not aware of this.
      <br>
      <blockquote type="cite" style="color: #007cff;">It continues to be
        possible to run GNOME without installing gnome-core,
        <br>
        by installing gnome-session (which is the minimal GNOME session)
        and
        <br>
        whatever applications you want to run: for example, you could
        install
        <br>
        all of the dependencies of gnome-core except for pipewire-audio
        if that's
        <br>
        what you want, and that would be a valid way to configure a
        system.
        <br>
        <br>
        I don't know whether it's intentional that it is no longer
        possible to
        <br>
        install gnome-core and pulseaudio together.
        <br>
        <br>
        Pipewire maintainers: do you have an opinion on whether
        gnome-core should
        <br>
        return to depending on the individual dependencies of
        pipewire-audio,
        <br>
        rather than on the metapackage?
        <br>
        <br>
        I'm not sure that I understand why pipewire-alsa and
        pipewire-audio need
        <br>
        to conflict with pulseaudio. Would it be sufficient to rename
        <br>
        /etc/alsa/conf.d/99-pipewire-default.conf to sort later than
        99-pulse.conf,
        <br>
        or ask the pulseaudio maintainers to rename
        /etc/alsa/conf.d/99-pulse.conf
        <br>
        to sort slightly earlier? That would restore the older behaviour
        in which
        <br>
        installing both pulseaudio and the equivalent of pipewire-audio
        is possible,
        <br>
        and Pipewire "wins"?
        <br>
        <br>
        <blockquote type="cite" style="color: #007cff;">I think this is
          a probem!
          <br>
        </blockquote>
        Please clarify why this is a problem?
        <br>
      </blockquote>
      Given the above, my opinion has changed.
      <br>
      <blockquote type="cite" style="color: #007cff;">If there are
        reasons why you need to continue to use pulseaudio instead
        <br>
        of pipewire-pulse's implementation of a PulseAudio-compatible
        audio server,
        <br>
        please report them as bugs or feature requests in
        pipewire-pulse.
        <br>
        <br>
        Did you previously have pipewire-pulse installed? If yes, how
        did you
        <br>
        arrange to avoid it taking precedence over pulseaudio?
        <br>
        <br>
        (If the answer is that you were previously using pipewire-pulse
        as your
        <br>
        audio service, you were no longer running pulseaudio, and you
        hadn't
        <br>
        noticed any difference, then that is pipewire-pulse working as
        intended!)
        <br>
      </blockquote>
      This is exactly what happened! Nice job making me completely
      oblivious to this change!
      <br>
      <blockquote type="cite" style="color: #007cff;">
        <br>
        I can see that requiring apt to figure out that it can remove
        pulseaudio
        <br>
        during upgrades might be problematic, since apt is often
        reluctant to
        <br>
        remove packages, and for that reason it might be better if we
        could find
        <br>
        a solution where leaving pulseaudio installed and inactive is
        possible.
        <br>
      </blockquote>
      Maybe. I prefer cleaning up packages, so if something is inactive
      by necessity, I think it should be removed.
      <br>
      <blockquote type="cite" style="color: #007cff;">
        <br>
        Thanks,
        <br>
             smcv
        <br>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      <div class="moz-txt-sig"><span class="moz-txt-tag">-- <br>
        </span>--
        <br>
        Rann Bar-On
        <br>
        he/him/his
        <br>
        <br>
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