[Debconfsubs-team] [RFR] Debian in the dark age of free software by Zack
Thomas Vincent
thomas at vinc-net.fr
Mon Jan 26 20:12:36 UTC 2015
Hello subbers and Zack!
After quite a break, I finally managed to complete and sync the
subtitles for the talk "Debian in the dark age of free software" given
by Zack during last DebConf.
If you want to review them and help me replacing the last "???"s in the
text, the srt file is attached.
You can also directly edit the subtitles on the Amara website:
http://www.amara.org/fr/videos/RVQRrDDcIZ0s/info/
Thanks in advance for your reviews!
Cheers,
Thomas
-------------- next part --------------
1
00:00:16,612 --> 00:00:17,380
Can you hear me?
2
00:00:17,701 --> 00:00:18,420
Better.
3
00:00:18,570 --> 00:00:19,562
So, hello everyone.
4
00:00:19,683 --> 00:00:21,382
Welcome again to DebConf, I guess.
5
00:00:21,522 --> 00:00:25,360
It's a great pleasure to be back again
at one DebConf
6
00:00:25,443 --> 00:00:28,447
and a great honor to be doing one
of the opening talks.
7
00:00:29,161 --> 00:00:31,801
I confess I wasn't really expecting
that honor.
8
00:00:31,870 --> 00:00:33,531
I just wanted to propose a session
9
00:00:33,559 --> 00:00:36,281
which was supposed to be
a self held sessions
10
00:00:36,281 --> 00:00:39,326
for those of us that think there are
some worries
11
00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:43,320
about where the free software is going
in general.
12
00:00:43,763 --> 00:00:47,651
And the role distributions have to play
in the current state of affairs.
13
00:00:48,004 --> 00:00:50,925
So this talk will be about a couple of
journeys at once.
14
00:00:51,216 --> 00:00:54,286
The first journey is a journey
through emotions,
15
00:00:54,569 --> 00:00:58,640
through good feelings about what
we have achieved in Free Software
16
00:00:58,921 --> 00:01:01,800
over the past 15 to 20 or 30 years
17
00:01:01,824 --> 00:01:03,860
depending on how long you've been
involved.
18
00:01:04,006 --> 00:01:06,284
The second journey is essentially
my own journey
19
00:01:06,284 --> 00:01:08,122
through software freedom
20
00:01:08,132 --> 00:01:10,840
from the day I started discovering
Free Software
21
00:01:10,866 --> 00:01:13,240
and what I've ended up doing since then.
22
00:01:14,282 --> 00:01:17,240
Starting with the positive news.
23
00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:23,001
This is how I got involved myself
in free software in 1997.
24
00:01:23,050 --> 00:01:25,140
I understand that there are people
in the room
25
00:01:25,161 --> 00:01:27,920
who have been involved
since way earlier than that,
26
00:01:27,949 --> 00:01:30,360
others that have been involved
since way later than that.
27
00:01:30,450 --> 00:01:31,561
Well, that's my story.
28
00:01:32,046 --> 00:01:34,802
I hope you'll find ??? points
with your own story.
29
00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:41,041
When I started as a freshman in a computer
science class at university of Bologna,
30
00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:43,600
that was a huge tiping point,
31
00:01:43,845 --> 00:01:47,121
a huge hype point for the so-called
opensource movement.
32
00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:52,040
That was the year the very influencial
essay by ??? has been published.
33
00:01:52,404 --> 00:01:58,528
That was the year ??? Netscape decided to
opensource its own code.
34
00:01:58,870 --> 00:02:01,210
That was the moment in the history of
free software
35
00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:04,000
when people were trying to sell
to the industry
36
00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:09,431
what free software was doing, and
I'm not using that word in a bad sense.
37
00:02:09,610 --> 00:02:12,970
There was reasonable concern that
without involvement of the industry,
38
00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,400
the free software movement wouldn't have
got far.
39
00:02:16,773 --> 00:02:21,830
So they were trying to tell about free
software in an industry-friendly way.
40
00:02:22,283 --> 00:02:25,203
Essentially, the rhetoric at the point
was that
41
00:02:25,475 --> 00:02:28,800
if you do development of software
in the free software way,
42
00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,230
in a more open way,
a more participative way,
43
00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:35,693
you will end up having better software
and that by merely opening up you code
44
00:02:35,896 --> 00:02:40,526
you'll have these flocks of programmers
coming to you project and end up helping you.
45
00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:47,046
A few years later, I realised that
I personnaly didn't believe much in that idea:
46
00:02:47,261 --> 00:02:50,390
it's only because your software is open
that it's gonna be better,
47
00:02:50,727 --> 00:02:53,521
but it was a fair thing to try
at the time.
48
00:02:54,282 --> 00:02:57,304
What I discovered a bit later is actually
what ??? me
49
00:02:57,304 --> 00:03:00,336
was essentially the philosophy
of free software.
50
00:03:00,336 --> 00:03:05,360
The fact that computer user should be
in charge and in control of their own machine,
51
00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:07,200
that should have some basic freedom.
52
00:03:07,241 --> 00:03:10,770
You know about the 4 freedoms,
I'm not going to repeat them here,
53
00:03:11,067 --> 00:03:15,922
but my personal point is that
the narrative of free software is something
54
00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:17,890
that resonated with me a lot at the time.
55
00:03:18,201 --> 00:03:22,720
As a student, I realised that by having
free software at my fingertip as a computer science student,
56
00:03:22,722 --> 00:03:27,600
I could debug any single layer of the software stack
and look at how things are going.
57
00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:32,000
I didn't have to trust the teacher on how
an operating system should be developed.
58
00:03:32,121 --> 00:03:38,904
I was able to open up ??? in the linux kernel
and look at the actual scheduling algorithm
59
00:03:38,904 --> 00:03:41,440
that was being implemented in the real kernel.
60
00:03:41,489 --> 00:03:43,555
Not that I really got all of it at the time
61
00:03:43,555 --> 00:03:46,781
but the possibility was just breathtaking
for me.
62
00:03:47,911 --> 00:03:52,982
Later on, I ended up distilling
the main intuition of free software,
63
00:03:52,982 --> 00:03:55,980
which is the one I used to explain
free software to people,
64
00:03:55,980 --> 00:03:57,600
which is intuition of control.
65
00:03:57,832 --> 00:04:03,303
So, I ended up believing that the main
reason why I've been involved in this movement
66
00:04:03,362 --> 00:04:07,750
for about fifteen years is that I really believe
that every single computer user,
67
00:04:08,013 --> 00:04:10,249
and that's a lot of people these days,
68
00:04:10,249 --> 00:04:13,755
should be in control over
their own computations.
69
00:04:13,755 --> 00:04:17,212
Everything you're doing with a device
which is mediated via software
70
00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,840
is controled by someone,
either it is you or it is someone else.
71
00:04:21,539 --> 00:04:24,350
And the best episode, the best narrative
to explain that to people
72
00:04:24,391 --> 00:04:26,794
that they've been using for quite a while
is this passage
73
00:04:26,794 --> 00:04:29,197
from the novel "Makers" by Cory Doctorow
74
00:04:29,197 --> 00:04:31,600
which is a bit long so I'm not gonna read it in detail,
75
00:04:31,752 --> 00:04:35,518
but essentially there is one character
of the novel which is Lester
76
00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,580
which is explaining to another character
the importance of controling
77
00:04:39,580 --> 00:04:41,370
your own devices, your own tools.
78
00:04:41,370 --> 00:04:44,170
The first example he takes is the example
of the hammer,
79
00:04:44,170 --> 00:04:45,840
a physical hammer,
80
00:04:45,840 --> 00:04:48,570
and he goes on saying that if you own
a hammer,
81
00:04:48,750 --> 00:04:50,940
essentially you could do
whatever you want with it.
82
00:04:50,980 --> 00:04:53,303
You can use it for its main purpose,
83
00:04:53,303 --> 00:04:55,426
or you can use it for something
completely different
84
00:04:55,426 --> 00:04:58,520
which was not meant to be its original
purpose but it's you that decide.
85
00:04:58,952 --> 00:05:03,886
He compares that another device
which is the "Disney in a box" in the novel
86
00:05:04,155 --> 00:05:08,487
and Disney in this book is the big evil
villain which is oppressing people
87
00:05:08,770 --> 00:05:14,271
and essentially Disney in a box is a
glorified3D printer that can only print
88
00:05:15,131 --> 00:05:17,960
what Disney wants it to print for that day.
89
00:05:18,632 --> 00:05:22,071
One day, it will print a goofie character,
90
00:05:22,071 --> 00:05:24,600
another day it will print Donald Duck,
91
00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:26,160
but it's not you who decides.
92
00:05:26,217 --> 00:05:30,227
It's Disney that decides what the printer
is gonna print for you that day.
93
00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,968
You own the device but you are
not in control of what the device does.
94
00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:38,831
The big quote for me is that if you don't
control your life, you're miserable.
95
00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:45,920
This notion of oppression is what has
been motivating me for all these years.
96
00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,864
So the fact that if you are not in control
of your own computation,
97
00:05:49,864 --> 00:05:52,088
then someone is oppressing you.
98
00:05:52,088 --> 00:05:56,552
Someone usually is the person or the company
or whatever that has created the software,
99
00:05:56,588 --> 00:05:59,210
that has the power to change that software
instead of you.
100
00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:01,413
This is something that really ??? me.
101
00:06:02,711 --> 00:06:05,440
What was I doing at the time
with my computer?
102
00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,049
Well I was doing pretty standard stuff.
103
00:06:08,049 --> 00:06:10,596
I was using some hardware we had at the time
104
00:06:10,596 --> 00:06:14,063
which was mostly desktops and
local network servers.
105
00:06:14,063 --> 00:06:16,668
I didn't have a laptop because
it was really expensive for a student
106
00:06:16,668 --> 00:06:19,003
so I did get a laptop much later.
107
00:06:19,003 --> 00:06:21,930
I was doing some content production,
some content consumption.
108
00:06:21,983 --> 00:06:24,836
The kind of content I did produce
at the time was mostly
109
00:06:24,836 --> 00:06:29,139
office suites, desktop publishing
and this kind of stuffs.
110
00:06:29,139 --> 00:06:32,352
I was doing some communication, some email,
some IRC, some newsgroup
111
00:06:32,352 --> 00:06:34,705
which was really cool at the time
for geek communities.
112
00:06:34,705 --> 00:06:36,946
And I was doing some software development
as a newbie
113
00:06:36,946 --> 00:06:38,987
but it was what I was doing at the time.
114
00:06:38,987 --> 00:06:41,941
I also did some content consumption,
some gaming
115
00:06:41,941 --> 00:06:46,075
which are arguably some content that
someone else is producing for you to consume.
116
00:06:46,075 --> 00:06:47,361
I was doing some web browsing.
117
00:06:47,461 --> 00:06:49,147
Internet was not as popular as it is today,
118
00:06:49,147 --> 00:06:53,113
but there were some websites
you could find interesting.
119
00:06:54,163 --> 00:06:57,565
In that situation,
with this kind of computing,
120
00:06:57,565 --> 00:07:02,817
the actual path to software freedom
and to control was fairly clear.
121
00:07:02,817 --> 00:07:08,001
It was difficult, but it was fairly clear
to me as a new activist in free software.
122
00:07:08,057 --> 00:07:11,674
What I should have done, what we all should
have done to actually liberate people
123
00:07:11,674 --> 00:07:14,691
from the oppression of people controling
our own computation.
124
00:07:15,031 --> 00:07:18,948
The idea is that while you have
a lot of pieces of proprietary software
125
00:07:18,948 --> 00:07:22,883
which you do not control, what you need
to do is to replace
126
00:07:22,883 --> 00:07:28,488
every such a component of proprietary
software with a free software equivalent.
127
00:07:28,658 --> 00:07:31,626
Using some local application, some game,
128
00:07:31,626 --> 00:07:34,054
we need to replace it
with an equivalent free game.
129
00:07:34,054 --> 00:07:39,156
We were using some client-server software,
some mail ???, some mail client,
130
00:07:39,156 --> 00:07:42,218
some mail server, some IRC client,
some IRC server.
131
00:07:42,218 --> 00:07:47,395
What we needed to do to actually empower
people and liberate people was to rewrite
132
00:07:47,395 --> 00:07:50,942
those pieces of software with free software equivalents.
133
00:07:50,942 --> 00:07:55,360
It was difficult, because it was a lot of stuff
to be rewritten, but it was fairly clear.
134
00:07:55,599 --> 00:07:56,561
The plan was clear.
135
00:07:56,842 --> 00:08:01,560
And also, luckily, we also had, at the time,
all the heavy lifting was already in place.
136
00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:04,570
The GNU project existed ??? since
quite a while,
137
00:08:04,570 --> 00:08:07,460
the Linux kernel existed already
and it was working.
138
00:08:07,460 --> 00:08:11,963
So someone else with shoulders larger
than ??? I had at the time
139
00:08:11,963 --> 00:08:15,252
had already done a lot of work for me and me
140
00:08:15,252 --> 00:08:19,458
and together with other free software activists,
what I had to focus on was to rewrite
141
00:08:19,458 --> 00:08:24,514
proprietary application into equivalent
free software application, possibly better.
142
00:08:24,514 --> 00:08:27,480
That was clear, was hard,
but it was fairly clear.
143
00:08:29,001 --> 00:08:34,570
That's where, I think, the notion
of a free software project comes from.
144
00:08:34,813 --> 00:08:39,955
We use very often this term of free
software project and never ended up
145
00:08:39,955 --> 00:08:44,323
really thinking about that before a few
years ago and I think the reason why
146
00:08:44,323 --> 00:08:46,881
we call it free software project is that
there is an objective.
147
00:08:46,881 --> 00:08:49,914
So there is a mission,
ideally a time-limited one,
148
00:08:49,914 --> 00:08:54,916
and that mission is writing a replacement
for a proprietary application using
149
00:08:54,916 --> 00:08:58,828
free software which is as good,
possibly better than the original.
150
00:08:59,338 --> 00:09:03,612
Having a lot of free software projects
around gives rise to a lot of releases.
151
00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,656
So what we were doing a lot at the time
in the 90s
152
00:09:06,656 --> 00:09:10,092
was to actually manually install
software on our own machines.
153
00:09:10,092 --> 00:09:14,679
To be fair, our lab was running
some Red Hat machines.
154
00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:18,107
At the time there weren't that
many packages available and
155
00:09:18,107 --> 00:09:21,895
we had to fairly often install stuff
by hand on the lab machines
156
00:09:21,895 --> 00:09:25,033
in our own directories and also
on our computers at home.
157
00:09:25,033 --> 00:09:27,633
This is a procedure you all know very well.
158
00:09:27,933 --> 00:09:31,693
You download a tarball, you run "configure",
you run "make", you run "make install".
159
00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,529
The first time I saw that, it was kind of
a magical recipe for me.
160
00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,792
Just follow these steps and you will get
some software to play with.
161
00:09:38,792 --> 00:09:41,890
Well, except that every single step
could fail, of course.
162
00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:47,023
Let's keep aside for the moment the fact
that the website might be down but,
163
00:09:47,023 --> 00:09:50,726
you run "configure" and you miss some software
you need to fetch from somewhere else.
164
00:09:50,726 --> 00:09:54,480
You run "make", you encounter some
compilation problem.
165
00:09:54,791 --> 00:09:58,428
You run "make install", maybe the path
will clash and so on and so forth.
166
00:09:58,658 --> 00:10:03,160
The problem with this procedure for
install software we are using by hand
167
00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:05,801
is that you are essentially
conflicting roles.
168
00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,800
You're mixing together the role of
software user,
169
00:10:10,201 --> 00:10:13,480
the role of system administrator
and the role of software developper.
170
00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:19,240
You need to have a little bit of all those skills
together to be able to enjoy software.
171
00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:24,760
In a sense, a free software which works
like this is essentially a very elistist thing.
172
00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:29,241
It's only an elite which have
all the needed skills who is able to enjoy
173
00:10:29,560 --> 00:10:34,440
the benefits of free software and is able
to be in control of their own computation.
174
00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:39,240
This is essentially the reason why distributions
much earlier had been invented.
175
00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,960
We all know very well here
what distributions do,
176
00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:48,204
they sit in between software developpers
and software users and make it easy for you
177
00:10:48,681 --> 00:10:50,040
to actually use that software.
178
00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:55,600
We do installer work, we create installers,
we create package managers,
179
00:10:55,752 --> 00:11:00,040
we do all the integration work that make
different pieces of software work well together.
180
00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,560
We actually make life easy for final users.
181
00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:11,395
So, for me, something that I started believing
is that the ultimate mission of free software
182
00:11:11,395 --> 00:11:16,521
distributions is to actually democratize
free software, to enable users
183
00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:20,681
which do not have software development skills
or do not have system administration skills,
184
00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,547
enable them to enjoy the benefit
of free software.
185
00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,320
We offer very simple interface,
186
00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:31,601
we offer the equivalent of what these days
are called appstores in which
187
00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,640
with one click, you can just install
some software and
188
00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,084
enjoy the benefit of that software,
in particular a free software.
189
00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:43,320
This is for me the historical mission
of distributions.
190
00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:48,924
Later on, in 1998, our lab decided
to switch to Debian
191
00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:51,440
and I was really happy about that.
192
00:11:52,201 --> 00:11:54,120
We switch from Red Hat to Debian and
I look out about this project,
193
00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:59,240
I start learning what this project does
and I find out that not only
194
00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,560
this project Debian was actually up to
the mission of empowering user
195
00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:06,480
by making it easy for users
to use free software.
196
00:12:06,980 --> 00:12:12,242
If you read the original announcement of
Ian Murdock announcing the Debian project,
197
00:12:12,242 --> 00:12:15,880
we'll find this notion of being competitive
with proprietary operating systems
198
00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,720
and it's really clear that the point is
empowering users.
199
00:12:19,403 --> 00:12:24,560
I end up reading about this project and
not only I found their mission
200
00:12:24,887 --> 00:12:28,480
they're up to is the mission I believe in,
but I found out that the key intuition there
201
00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:30,720
is to make the project a community project.
202
00:12:31,680 --> 00:12:34,121
Not only the target are the users
and empowering them,
203
00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,840
but also the way to reach that objective
is fostering a community
204
00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:40,000
that will work together to that goal.
205
00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:41,760
I got immediately hooked,
206
00:12:41,927 --> 00:12:44,521
I vividly remember the moment
a collegue of mine, a student
207
00:12:44,680 --> 00:12:47,441
explained to me the anatomy of
a Debian source package,
208
00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,120
the fact that it was a .orig.tar.gz,
the fact that it was a diff.gz
209
00:12:51,150 --> 00:12:53,881
with the differences with respect to upstream,
and all those metadata
210
00:12:53,881 --> 00:12:56,481
that was really thrilling for me
from a technical point of view.
211
00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,841
A few years later, I ended up joining
the nm-process.
212
00:13:01,369 --> 00:13:05,480
I was doing some OCaml development
at the time, there were some libraries,
213
00:13:05,521 --> 00:13:08,200
OCaml libraries in Debian, others were
missing and I said
214
00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:12,960
"Ok, maybe I should help and create
some libraries for the project as well".
215
00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:20,239
I went through nm and there are a few things
I've learned doing nm
216
00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:23,360
and also in the subsequent ten years
or fifteen years or so.
217
00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:29,720
One thing I've learned in all these years in
Debian is the importance of being principled.
218
00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:34,761
Debian is a project that did not start
from only technical means
219
00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:37,680
but also decided at some point that
they needed some guidance,
220
00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:40,400
some clear guidance of what it should
technically and what it shouldn't.
221
00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:45,920
And an important document where we have
distilled this notion are the DFSG.
222
00:13:46,602 --> 00:13:47,960
The Debian free software guidance
223
00:13:48,161 --> 00:13:50,961
which has been very influencial
on the free software movement as a whole.
224
00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:54,280
They've been used as a base for
the open source definition as you know,
225
00:13:54,761 --> 00:13:58,240
and what was very ??? for me
is that commitment we had in Debian
226
00:13:58,521 --> 00:14:03,057
in keeping the main archive completely
DFSG-free, keeping it completely free software.
227
00:14:03,601 --> 00:14:08,167
This commitment is depicted here
by those fearsome character
228
00:14:08,668 --> 00:14:14,400
and his owner on a couch and it's mediating
and triggering the NEW queue, supposedly,
229
00:14:14,801 --> 00:14:17,479
and the NEW queue is not necessarily
the best way we could implement
230
00:14:17,837 --> 00:14:21,641
a system which triage all the software
in the archive and to ensure it's DFSG-free
231
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:27,320
but it shows our commitment to actually
only follow the guidance we have set for ourselves.
232
00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:29,480
It was really motivating for me.
233
00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:32,121
The second thing I've learned and which
will come handy in a bit,
234
00:14:32,121 --> 00:14:37,240
is the importance of the legal knowledge
and legal geeks in the free software movement.
235
00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:42,400
Like it or not, free software as an ideal
is philosophical mean,
236
00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:48,082
but its main implementation is through the
legal system, is through copyright licenses.
237
00:14:48,561 --> 00:14:52,280
To really ??? what's happening
in free software in general,
238
00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,840
to understand where the free software
movement is going, figuring out and
239
00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,321
really understand what's going on
in the legal system is very important.
240
00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,920
In Debian, we know that pretty well,
that's a stumbling block for many people
241
00:15:04,061 --> 00:15:06,120
when joining the Debian project.
242
00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:09,960
It's something we insist people are at least
basically familiar with and
243
00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:14,280
that's pretty characteristic
of the Debian project.
244
00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,040
In the end, what I've learned is that
245
00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:22,660
in this quest that I feel very much myself
against the oppression of someone else
246
00:15:22,660 --> 00:15:27,361
controling your own computation,
law, if you hack around it smartly,
247
00:15:27,361 --> 00:15:31,723
can be a very useful ally,
a very useful device to liberate users.
248
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:38,480
Time passes − there was supposed to be an
image here, which for some reason disappeared.
249
00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:45,040
And, we might argue that, these days,
we have achieved a lot since that moment.
250
00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,922
If I look around the industry or, in general,
if I look around computing
251
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:54,000
as people are doing that,
free software is a little bit everywhere.
252
00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:58,400
In the industry, there are some stats
that claim that essentially
253
00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:02,320
every single software product you find
on the market has, inside of it,
254
00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:04,600
a little bit of free software code.
255
00:16:05,536 --> 00:16:08,280
If you look at all the different application
stacks we have
256
00:16:08,642 --> 00:16:11,280
from webservers to education to clients
to smartphones,
257
00:16:11,602 --> 00:16:15,800
you find a lot of free software, free software
infrastructures that are everywhere.
258
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,400
So these are just some stats ???
in the recent years
259
00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:24,600
and for instance if we look at one of the
key target market for Debian ???
260
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:30,441
we'll find out one website over ten
on the Internet in general is running Debian.
261
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,800
If we include also some of our most
popular derivatives such as Ubuntu,
262
00:16:34,121 --> 00:16:35,960
we'll find that more than 20%
of the websites
263
00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,560
are running something which comes
from our own work.
264
00:16:39,001 --> 00:16:45,721
And some of the recent hype on free software
is coming from the Snowden revelation
265
00:16:45,721 --> 00:16:50,000
and most people are starting to be concerned
about what the software they're using is doing
266
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:55,680
and is turning to free software and is turning
to stuff like Tails which is heavily Debian-based
267
00:16:55,680 --> 00:17:00,685
to actually see in which way we can
help them foster their own security.
268
00:17:01,281 --> 00:17:03,000
In some sense, we have achieved a lot.
269
00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:08,041
In everything we do in computing,
there is a little bit of what we have done
270
00:17:08,041 --> 00:17:10,800
in free software and also a little bit
of what we have done in Debian.
271
00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:12,960
This is pretty impressive for me.
272
00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:18,560
We're in a place where I wouldn't have
dreamed being when I started in 1997.
273
00:17:18,874 --> 00:17:19,881
That's very impressive.
274
00:17:20,321 --> 00:17:24,160
On the other hand, there are some reasons
of concerns
275
00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,951
and this is the main thought
I wanted to share with you.
276
00:17:30,020 --> 00:17:33,880
There are some technical reasons which
we discuss often in free software circles
277
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:40,040
like the fact that "Ok but most of these
platforms are not 100% free software".
278
00:17:40,841 --> 00:17:42,560
If you look at smartphones for instance,
279
00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:48,440
you will find a lot of non free code every here
and there and the point can be made that
280
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:52,041
either you have full control over
your own computation,
281
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:53,440
or you are not in control at all,
282
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,206
because if your software stack is a single layer
which is controlled by someone else,
283
00:17:57,206 --> 00:18:01,200
and is mediating all your communication,
maybe you're not so sure
284
00:18:01,524 --> 00:18:04,600
that you are the real owner and
the real controller for your own device.
285
00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,157
That's a absolutely fair point.
286
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:11,241
We can make some more technical points
about for instance non free JavaScript.
287
00:18:11,321 --> 00:18:14,520
More and more of our computations are
happening in our browsers
288
00:18:14,855 --> 00:18:17,680
and are happening through code which is
delivered to our browser
289
00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,081
by remote servers and this code
is not free at all.
290
00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:26,840
I absolutely agree with that but the point
I want to focus on today is actually
291
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,561
what we call the cloud.
292
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:33,012
All my images are gone.
293
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,040
You had a very nice image there, sorry.
294
00:18:41,390 --> 00:18:45,525
The remaining point and my main reason of
concern is what is being called the cloud.
295
00:18:45,961 --> 00:18:48,640
Let allow me to be a bit generic here
for a moment.
296
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,360
I know there are very different ???
in what we call the cloud
297
00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:53,800
and will be specific in all of them
in a bit.
298
00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:56,680
But for now I want to focus on the
common trend that
299
00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:58,880
the cloud is bringing to computing
these days.
300
00:18:59,481 --> 00:19:03,897
Computing today, for most people, is not
much different from the kind of computing
301
00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:05,962
I was doing fifteen years ago.
302
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:09,960
That's the kind of computing that we do
on very different hardware,
303
00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:13,920
we have way more smartphones, way more
tablets than in the past and that's true.
304
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:19,160
But the kind of activities we do − producing
content, consuming content − is very similar.
305
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:23,721
The big difference is the kind of
technological stack we're using
306
00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:25,880
and where the computations are happening.
307
00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:30,440
For most people today, the kind of
office suites we use is no longer
308
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,687
a software which is installed on
your machine but it is Google Docs.
309
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:39,200
I'm an academic myself, I'm very often
forced to use some Google Docs applications
310
00:19:39,281 --> 00:19:42,160
to work with others, otherwise I'm free
not to work with them,
311
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:45,881
because it's a technological choice
made by someone else.
312
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,240
For many people, e-mail, as you know,
just mean GMail.
313
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,960
All our e-mails, even if your not
using GMail ourselves,
314
00:19:53,288 --> 00:19:55,480
are passing through some GMail servers.
315
00:19:55,681 --> 00:20:00,080
Asynchronous communications still exist,
but it is very often mediated
316
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:01,640
to software like Skype or GTalk.
317
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:02,940
And so on and so forth.
318
00:20:02,940 --> 00:20:04,240
You have seen this list very often.
319
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:08,640
Consuming content, there as well,
we are still doing gaming,
320
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,400
we are still doing browsing but it's often
mediated by platforms
321
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,320
which are far away from us and just stream
content to us or,
322
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:19,320
in the specific case of web browsing,
they are more and more often hosted
323
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:23,120
by very few hosters in the world − which
we often ??? to a walled garden −
324
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,644
that can do whatever they want
with our content.
325
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,720
The point here is not demonizing
those services.
326
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:35,307
People are using those services because
they are convenient and
327
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,525
there is a lot of network effect going on
that makes it easy for other people
328
00:20:39,601 --> 00:20:41,360
to start using those services.
329
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,200
It's really not the point of demonizing
those services.
330
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:49,444
The point here is observing that interesting
computations that we are doing
331
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,200
as our job, as our life,
332
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:57,241
are no longer happening on our machines,
but are happening on other machines
333
00:20:57,390 --> 00:21:02,400
which are far away from us and which
are not under our direct control.
334
00:21:02,641 --> 00:21:09,200
In this context, for me, I confess, what
actually is the road to software freedom
335
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,040
and to control, to enable people
to control their own computation
336
00:21:12,120 --> 00:21:13,080
is no longer clear.
337
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:17,080
It's no longer enough to say
"Well, we just need to rewrite
338
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,383
Google or Facebook or Twitter
in free software".
339
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,961
That's not enough, because even
if you do that, you have the problem
340
00:21:23,961 --> 00:21:27,401
that when you are using a server
you don't know if the code it is running
341
00:21:27,521 --> 00:21:31,658
is the one they claim it is running, so
that's a very difficult problem to solve.
342
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,320
And even if it were the case,
where do you deploy yourself
343
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,521
a Google-like architecture,
or a Facebook-like architecture?
344
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:40,000
You simply can't.
345
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,371
It is no longer enough to just say
346
00:21:42,521 --> 00:21:45,200
"We just need to make
some software development,
347
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,802
we just need to make it better
than the alternative."
348
00:21:48,201 --> 00:21:51,600
There is a real tricky combination between
software development
349
00:21:51,819 --> 00:21:55,881
and software deployment which
not easy to see how to fix it.
350
00:21:56,380 --> 00:21:59,520
At least for me, it's very ???
351
00:21:59,620 --> 00:22:01,043
So, what about distros?
352
00:22:02,139 --> 00:22:06,280
We are distro people, doing one
of the most popular distro in existence.
353
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,248
Are we winning or are we losing
in this situation?
354
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,165
How are we doing in terms of our efforts?
355
00:22:14,074 --> 00:22:16,320
In a sense, we are very much winning.
356
00:22:17,521 --> 00:22:20,800
A lot of our work is being used
to deploy those infrastructures.
357
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,080
A lot of the infrastructure
of the big companies are deploying
358
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,560
on top of free software, if not direct
on top of our very own systems,
359
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:31,560
maybe modified here and there where
they need to make things better
360
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,680
as it is their own right
given it's all free software.
361
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:36,680
In that sense, we're winning.
362
00:22:37,137 --> 00:22:38,480
We're increasing market share,
363
00:22:38,642 --> 00:22:40,920
??? are being used a lot
to make infrastructure.
364
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:46,240
But we are also losing in the sense that
we are really not empowering users
365
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,560
to be in control of
their own computations.
366
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:53,401
If our final users are the sysadmin
that are running those infrastructures,
367
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:55,202
for them we are doing great.
368
00:22:55,360 --> 00:22:56,920
We are making them be sure
369
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,041
they are in control
of their own infrastructure.
370
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,640
But for the final users of those services,
371
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,562
we are really not empowering them
at the moment.
372
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,241
So what I call the free software dark ages,
373
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:13,241
which is an expression I actually borrowed
from [name] ??? quite inspiring,
374
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:17,760
is a situation in which we win
on the end user market
375
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:21,681
so every single device out there
in the hand of people − desktop,
376
00:23:21,681 --> 00:23:26,000
laptop, even smartphones where right now
we are not doing very well −
377
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:28,360
all of this is running free software.
378
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:29,720
All of that is running Debian.
379
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:34,600
So, total world domination as
we were talking about a long time ago.
380
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:39,080
But all interesting computations,
all the final user application
381
00:23:39,201 --> 00:23:42,920
which is being used to bring on
with your digital life,
382
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,801
are no longer happening on your devices,
happening far away from you
383
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,363
on computer you do not control,
sometime with free software,
384
00:23:50,363 --> 00:23:51,655
sometime with non free software.
385
00:23:52,001 --> 00:23:54,126
But in any case, outside
of your own control.
386
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:59,520
In a sense, this is very worrysome for me
because we have this ??? we are very popular.
387
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:06,600
We are winning the war − we were using a lot
of this war-like terminology when I started.
388
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:11,680
But the war we are winning seems to become
increasingly pointless
389
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,522
because it's not being useful to actually
empower users to be in control
390
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,240
of their own computation.
391
00:24:18,401 --> 00:24:23,601
To make things worse, there seems to be
some cultural problems that might be
392
00:24:23,601 --> 00:24:28,441
just a perception of mind, maybe being
too pessimistic, but it seems to me that,
393
00:24:28,441 --> 00:24:31,520
as developper communities,
as hacker communities,
394
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,440
we are becoming way more lenient,
way more ???
395
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,281
about the lack of control on the tools and
on infrastructure we use
396
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:39,760
to make free software.
397
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,880
More and more often we see free software
developed on non-free infrastructure,
398
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,280
meaning infrastructures which are built
using non free software
399
00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:50,600
and which are anyhow centralized
in the hand of a few hosters.
400
00:24:53,670 --> 00:24:55,640
The new generation of developpers
which is coming up
401
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:57,080
seems to be totally fine with that.
402
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,520
I'm not gonna argue this point in much detail,
there is a great essay by Mako
403
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,880
that I encourage all of you to read,
"Free software needs free tools",
404
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:05,840
which actually make couple of points.
405
00:25:05,881 --> 00:25:09,360
One is that by using non free software
to make free software,
406
00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:11,081
we are sending out a very bad message.
407
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,814
We are telling to the world that
free software is good for you,
408
00:25:13,814 --> 00:25:16,480
that's why we are developing it,
but it's not good for us
409
00:25:16,561 --> 00:25:18,480
because we are using non free tools
to make it.
410
00:25:18,801 --> 00:25:21,841
That's the kind of ???
in our advertising message,
411
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:26,120
but it's also making the software
we are creating indirectly less free,
412
00:25:26,401 --> 00:25:29,880
because if the favorite way to contribute
to that free software
413
00:25:29,961 --> 00:25:32,200
is using some non free infrastructure,
some non free tools,
414
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,840
indirectly we're making people
that only want to use free software
415
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,600
less apt to contribute to that software.
416
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,241
So I really recommend reading that essay.
417
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,800
But also technically, we are going back
to a sort of a cage problem,
418
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:49,640
which is also a problem which is called
"the problem of the bug that noone can fix"
419
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,640
by the FSF I think, and essentially
we're creating software stacks
420
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:57,400
in which some part of it is entirely
free software, that we can debug
421
00:25:57,481 --> 00:26:02,320
and some other parts are non free software
or software run by someone else,
422
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,160
so we have lost the ability to debug
the full stack.
423
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:11,000
When I was starting to learn programming,
this idea that I could debug everything
424
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,801
from the end user I was writing myself
for an assignment
425
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,709
down to the kernel level
was just exciting for me.
426
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,520
We seem to be losing sight of this,
a little bit.
427
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,360
As a second cultural problem,
we seem to be losing sight of
428
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,160
how much help we could get from
the legal system
429
00:26:29,492 --> 00:26:32,720
and from new legal solution that
we might be in need of finding.
430
00:26:33,041 --> 00:26:38,361
An example of that is the post open
source software "POSS" debate
431
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:40,720
which some of you might have run into.
432
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,920
That's a debate which actually observes
that the new generation of
433
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:48,008
free software developpers actually
don't care about licenses.
434
00:26:48,523 --> 00:26:51,363
They just want to kick out their code,
just put it on GitHub,
435
00:26:51,643 --> 00:26:54,963
not declaring their license at all
and they're just fine with that.
436
00:26:55,363 --> 00:27:00,883
They want to be ??? to have
the hassle of deciding first of all a license,
437
00:27:01,208 --> 00:27:04,403
second of all also some governance
model for their projects.
438
00:27:04,483 --> 00:27:09,163
They just want to be hacking and doing,
and not caring about those annoying details.
439
00:27:10,163 --> 00:27:15,523
This could be intervetedly interpreted
in positive ways like says that
440
00:27:15,763 --> 00:27:22,523
we want the right to work on the code and
to do whatever we want with that by default.
441
00:27:22,763 --> 00:27:25,483
We do not want to be expliciting
which kind of rights we give and
442
00:27:25,643 --> 00:27:27,603
that's a very positive interpretation
of this phenomenon.
443
00:27:28,043 --> 00:27:32,083
But in the end, for now, it is creating
a huge bunch of code that
444
00:27:32,123 --> 00:27:35,243
we could not use as free software yet.
445
00:27:35,443 --> 00:27:38,643
For instance we cannot include in Debian
something that does not have a license at all.
446
00:27:39,523 --> 00:27:43,043
A second example is the debate about
the non freeness of AGPL.
447
00:27:43,723 --> 00:27:49,923
If you look up the history of free software,
there is argument that GPL itself is not free.
448
00:27:50,003 --> 00:27:52,723
It's an argument that was being used
twenty years ago
449
00:27:52,763 --> 00:27:56,963
when the battle between copyleft and
liberalizing was very high, was very harsh.
450
00:27:57,403 --> 00:27:59,402
And it's just recurring again.
451
00:27:59,843 --> 00:28:04,123
So maybe for some syntactically
interpretation of our own guidance,
452
00:28:04,163 --> 00:28:08,123
we could make the point that something
like the AGPL is non free, maybe.
453
00:28:08,603 --> 00:28:12,883
But the point is that the way we distribute
software to final users is really changing.
454
00:28:13,443 --> 00:28:18,123
Twenty years ago or fifteen years ago,
the main way to enable some user to use
455
00:28:18,363 --> 00:28:21,283
a piece of software was actually to make
a copy of that software and
456
00:28:21,283 --> 00:28:25,163
give it to him or to her via the network
or some media.
457
00:28:25,563 --> 00:28:29,163
And all those ???,
that kind of conveying software is clearly
458
00:28:29,163 --> 00:28:34,483
distribution and that kind of activity used
to trigger some sort of license ???.
459
00:28:34,723 --> 00:28:38,443
These days, a software is no longer
distributed that way, in large parts.
460
00:28:38,729 --> 00:28:44,683
It's being used over the net and something
like the AGPL is the equivalent of triggering
461
00:28:44,803 --> 00:28:48,203
some licensing condition via the main way
of distributing,
462
00:28:48,243 --> 00:28:50,123
of giving access to some software.
463
00:28:50,603 --> 00:28:53,453
I want to enter in details in this debate.
464
00:28:53,493 --> 00:28:56,283
Those are just examples, for me they are
examples of the fact that
465
00:28:56,283 --> 00:29:01,163
we are kind of losing faith in how much
the legal system and free software
466
00:29:01,203 --> 00:29:02,403
are intertwined.
467
00:29:02,922 --> 00:29:06,435
And this actually mixes very badly
with the situation in which
468
00:29:06,435 --> 00:29:10,324
users are losing control because those
computations are moving away from them.
469
00:29:10,683 --> 00:29:14,243
I think this situation, in general,
is not going to fix themselves
470
00:29:14,608 --> 00:29:18,403
and we, as distribution people,
have a role to play in fixing it.
471
00:29:19,723 --> 00:29:25,563
What could be a role for Debian in all this
computing situation we have these days.
472
00:29:27,813 --> 00:29:31,883
The common trend in the so called cloud
seems to be that computations
473
00:29:31,925 --> 00:29:33,844
are moving away from user devices.
474
00:29:34,643 --> 00:29:37,763
We cannot just say
"Well just don't use anything cloudy",
475
00:29:38,043 --> 00:29:40,083
because it is convenient, people will want
to use that.
476
00:29:40,243 --> 00:29:41,563
We need to do something different.
477
00:29:41,921 --> 00:29:46,291
As distribution people, we could do a lot,
I think, and I have a couple of thoughts
478
00:29:46,564 --> 00:29:53,683
to share with you that are different
depending on the so called service model
479
00:29:53,683 --> 00:29:54,643
of the cloud.
480
00:29:54,803 --> 00:29:57,521
One of the first service model of the cloud
you might have heard about is
481
00:29:57,685 --> 00:30:00,643
"Infrastructure as a Service" (IaaS) where
essentially you have servers that
482
00:30:00,849 --> 00:30:05,643
give virtual machines to people and
essentially you get to administer
483
00:30:05,763 --> 00:30:08,403
your own machine which is a virtual machine
on a virtual machine server
484
00:30:08,683 --> 00:30:10,206
controlled by someone else.
485
00:30:10,444 --> 00:30:14,243
This is potentially very good for people
because it is lowering the barrier
486
00:30:14,284 --> 00:30:16,323
you need to have your own server.
487
00:30:16,643 --> 00:30:21,083
When I first set up my own server
with friends, at the end of the 90's,
488
00:30:21,324 --> 00:30:24,883
we had to buy some machine, to find
someone kind enough to host it,
489
00:30:25,003 --> 00:30:27,523
pay the hosting fees and so on
and so forth.
490
00:30:27,723 --> 00:30:31,963
It was something that was by far not at all
accessible to the random user.
491
00:30:32,323 --> 00:30:37,045
These days, a lot of people can simply go
to some virtual machine provider, rent
492
00:30:37,283 --> 00:30:42,044
a virtual machine with one-click button and
they have their own machine to administer.
493
00:30:42,364 --> 00:30:46,164
Maybe they don't have the skill to
administer it, that's a different problem,
494
00:30:46,332 --> 00:30:50,403
but you are definitly lowering the barrier
to access, to have you own server
495
00:30:50,682 --> 00:30:52,563
and do your own remote computation.
496
00:30:53,083 --> 00:30:56,363
As Debian, we are doing pretty well
in this area, I think.
497
00:30:56,483 --> 00:31:00,206
We're offering technology like OpenStack
and other competitors of OpenStack,
498
00:31:00,403 --> 00:31:04,603
which seems to be the market leader on
that market which are entirely free software.
499
00:31:04,884 --> 00:31:09,963
But I think we should be investing more in
offering a trivial deployment experience
500
00:31:10,211 --> 00:31:11,364
for Debian users.
501
00:31:11,403 --> 00:31:15,765
We should make trivial for people
to have their own virtual machine servers.
502
00:31:15,765 --> 00:31:19,203
If they are not computer geeks, they should
be able to flock together friends
503
00:31:19,443 --> 00:31:25,523
which have system administration ability
and have their own local IaaS
504
00:31:25,723 --> 00:31:30,843
and have their own virtual machine without
having to rely on big hosters provided
505
00:31:30,923 --> 00:31:33,043
virtual machines to everyone in the world.
506
00:31:33,444 --> 00:31:36,523
This is a great step to our autonomy.
507
00:31:36,603 --> 00:31:40,683
As Debian, what is the best deployment
experience we can offer for people
508
00:31:40,724 --> 00:31:43,323
that want to setup their own virtual
machine servers.
509
00:31:44,163 --> 00:31:48,124
Then, there is another service model which
is called PaaS, "platform as a service".
510
00:31:48,163 --> 00:31:51,724
This is a kind of service model in which
essentially you have hosters
511
00:31:51,724 --> 00:31:55,724
of application engines, you develop
application targeting
512
00:31:55,724 --> 00:31:58,043
specific application engine.
513
00:32:02,753 --> 00:32:04,723
An exemple of this is Google App Engine.
514
00:32:05,043 --> 00:32:11,003
I think in some sense this service model
of the cloud is mostly orthogonal to
515
00:32:11,003 --> 00:32:15,123
what we do as a distribution because either
you're using a full fledge distribution
516
00:32:15,363 --> 00:32:19,243
and you do your own system administration,
or you are developping an application
517
00:32:19,363 --> 00:32:22,403
for a specific application server and
you rely on someone else
518
00:32:22,403 --> 00:32:23,963
to do that administration.
519
00:32:24,323 --> 00:32:28,003
So, yes, I think it's mostly orthogonal
to what we do, but might also be
520
00:32:28,117 --> 00:32:31,810
a symptom that there is a reject from the
application developper community,
521
00:32:31,883 --> 00:32:36,723
a reject from the way they can target
distributions like Debian.
522
00:32:37,123 --> 00:32:40,523
So if it is very difficult to have your own
application running properly on Debian
523
00:32:40,803 --> 00:32:45,523
because we have old software, because we
change libraries, because we do not accept
524
00:32:45,802 --> 00:32:48,483
multiple copies of the same libraries and
so on and so forth,
525
00:32:48,683 --> 00:32:51,364
if it is too difficult for application
developpers to target Debian,
526
00:32:51,729 --> 00:32:57,363
they might be more and more tempted
to target applications servers like PaaS.
527
00:32:57,763 --> 00:33:02,363
So there might be something we could do
about this, here, like finding better synergies
528
00:33:02,763 --> 00:33:06,443
between containerization technology,
we have some work done in Debian,
529
00:33:06,443 --> 00:33:12,251
and the way we usually develop some,
we usually maintain a distribution.
530
00:33:12,251 --> 00:33:14,403
There might be something we could do
about this here.
531
00:33:14,733 --> 00:33:18,881
Oh, and I didn't mention this, but I have
no specific answer to give to you,
532
00:33:18,923 --> 00:33:22,683
just a train of thoughts I wanted to share
with you and what we could do
533
00:33:22,723 --> 00:33:23,963
to improve the situation.
534
00:33:25,244 --> 00:33:29,563
The final service model we have in the
cloud, which is I think worrysome
535
00:33:29,563 --> 00:33:34,723
from the point of view of user control,
is SaaS, Software as a Service.
536
00:33:35,043 --> 00:33:39,283
There, essentially your own device,
your own computer only is thin client
537
00:33:39,664 --> 00:33:43,563
and rely entirely on a remote server
to do your own computation.
538
00:33:43,843 --> 00:33:48,208
We are back to the mainframe / thin client
distinction of the early days of computing
539
00:33:48,563 --> 00:33:52,963
and here, there is a lot we could do,
I think, but also a lot we could not do.
540
00:33:53,290 --> 00:33:55,963
Here, most of the work should come
from upstreams.
541
00:33:56,283 --> 00:33:59,883
We need better free software and federated
replacement for
542
00:34:00,003 --> 00:34:05,043
popular centralized proprietary applications
in which users can participate
543
00:34:05,203 --> 00:34:07,843
in some kind of network by using
their own node.
544
00:34:08,203 --> 00:34:12,763
This is work that should not come from
distribution itself, it should really come
545
00:34:12,763 --> 00:34:14,843
from application developpers upstream.
546
00:34:15,203 --> 00:34:18,083
But still, there are useful things
we could do here.
547
00:34:18,643 --> 00:34:21,083
We already have a lot of building blocks.
548
00:34:21,523 --> 00:34:26,883
We have stuff like Owncloud, Git-annex,
mediagoblin, pump.io, Yacy.
549
00:34:26,963 --> 00:34:31,123
We have a lot of good building blocks,
most of them are not yet up to par
550
00:34:31,203 --> 00:34:36,243
with the centralized proprietary equivalent,
but I'm confident we could get there.
551
00:34:36,604 --> 00:34:42,883
What we lack is the equivalent ease of
deployment of these services on user machines.
552
00:34:43,385 --> 00:34:50,003
In some sense, if we have democratized
the installation of software twenty years ago
553
00:34:50,203 --> 00:34:56,643
with distributions, these days, to face the
challenge of control of our own computation,
554
00:34:56,883 --> 00:35:00,723
we need to make it as easy as using a
package manager to install
555
00:35:01,003 --> 00:35:04,043
your own nodes using those applications.
556
00:35:04,443 --> 00:35:12,483
Ideally, everyone in the world without
nothing more than basic computer user skills
557
00:35:12,763 --> 00:35:17,323
should be able to have its own machine
at home doing some anonymous browsing,
558
00:35:17,563 --> 00:35:21,363
doing some mail handling, doing web hosting,
doing storage calendar,
559
00:35:21,563 --> 00:35:24,323
doing encrypted peer to peer backup,
and so and so forth.
560
00:35:24,723 --> 00:35:28,923
I'm maintaining my own mail server and it is
a user ???, I struggle myself
561
00:35:29,243 --> 00:35:33,443
to keep up with the need of knowledge and
of surveillance that I need to make
562
00:35:33,523 --> 00:35:39,203
to my own mail server to be able to run it
properly and I get blacklisted
563
00:35:39,243 --> 00:35:41,562
from time to time from providers and
it's a pain.
564
00:35:41,923 --> 00:35:47,091
Something that no one without having at least
some basic system administration ability
565
00:35:47,091 --> 00:35:48,723
could do properly.
566
00:35:49,043 --> 00:35:51,843
This is the thing we need,
the nut we need to crack.
567
00:35:52,163 --> 00:35:55,963
We need to empower everyone out there
to have its own computer with
568
00:35:56,003 --> 00:35:58,243
its own node of those services.
569
00:35:58,323 --> 00:36:00,483
Of course, you are all thinking of
the FreedomBox now.
570
00:36:00,843 --> 00:36:06,363
That's a great example of a project who
wants to tackle precisely that problem.
571
00:36:06,803 --> 00:36:11,003
It's a project that's been announced by
Eben Moglen a few years ago at a Debconf
572
00:36:11,083 --> 00:36:12,683
if my memory serves me well.
573
00:36:13,043 --> 00:36:17,443
It's heavily based on Debian and it's doing
exactly that.
574
00:36:18,283 --> 00:36:21,523
But my question from the Debian
point of view is:
575
00:36:21,603 --> 00:36:25,123
maybe this project should not only be
a spin-off of Debian,
576
00:36:25,283 --> 00:36:29,723
should not only be a derivative distribution
of Debian,
577
00:36:29,848 --> 00:36:33,883
maybe we should think at making something
like this a first class citizen in Debian.
578
00:36:34,243 --> 00:36:38,603
I don't know exactly what that means yet,
it's something we could think about
579
00:36:38,603 --> 00:36:41,328
having the main administration interface
for Debian something
580
00:36:41,363 --> 00:36:43,203
that targets these specific scenarios.
581
00:36:43,203 --> 00:36:47,843
We could generalize that, we do not need
to target only specific plug devices
582
00:36:48,243 --> 00:36:51,603
because people at home might have desktop
computers, might have media center.
583
00:36:51,763 --> 00:36:55,924
They might want something like the
FreedomBox at home and
584
00:36:55,963 --> 00:36:57,523
collaborate with others immediately.
585
00:36:57,963 --> 00:37:02,443
My point here is that if our mission back
in the days was to
586
00:37:02,683 --> 00:37:06,843
democratize free software by making it
easier to install free software
587
00:37:06,949 --> 00:37:10,483
on your machine, today our mission is to
democratize free software by making it
588
00:37:10,483 --> 00:37:15,815
trivial to install some node of some
federation of free services on your machine.
589
00:37:18,243 --> 00:37:20,963
Another thing we could do,
it is the last one for me today,
590
00:37:21,323 --> 00:37:23,882
is to step in the free service debate.
591
00:37:24,323 --> 00:37:28,244
When I started looking up these arguments
a few years back, I was surprised by
592
00:37:28,244 --> 00:37:33,323
the fact that it's still not clear what
it does mean to be a free service.
593
00:37:34,723 --> 00:37:37,243
When I started working on free software
fifteen years ago,
594
00:37:37,403 --> 00:37:39,735
it was fairly clear what does
free software mean.
595
00:37:39,923 --> 00:37:43,483
Sure, it was some terminology debate
between free software and open source
596
00:37:43,523 --> 00:37:44,643
which still exists today,
597
00:37:44,926 --> 00:37:48,443
but the basic freedoms, the basic rights
you should have to call something
598
00:37:48,511 --> 00:37:51,083
free and open source was fairly clear.
599
00:37:51,443 --> 00:37:54,643
That kind of intellectual debate had
already happened at the time.
600
00:37:54,963 --> 00:37:59,490
Today, where the problem of computations
moving away from indivual user
601
00:37:59,770 --> 00:38:02,643
is raging, there is no clear consensus
on that matter.
602
00:38:03,083 --> 00:38:07,603
There is some great work, for instance
there is the Franklin Street statement on
603
00:38:07,603 --> 00:38:10,445
free network service,
I think that's a full ???,
604
00:38:10,643 --> 00:38:16,283
dating back to 2008, six years ago, in
which you find a lot of very useful
605
00:38:16,763 --> 00:38:21,963
recommendations for users, for software
developpers and for system administrators
606
00:38:22,043 --> 00:38:27,364
to make sure that you maximize your control
over your own computation on the network,
607
00:38:27,563 --> 00:38:32,483
but they take no stance on what it does mean
to be a free service.
608
00:38:33,603 --> 00:38:37,883
Is it enough to have something which is free,
do you need more specific license.
609
00:38:37,964 --> 00:38:40,883
There are some recommendation
on that point, but still,
610
00:38:41,123 --> 00:38:42,923
there are no clear answers
to this question.
611
00:38:45,083 --> 00:38:50,803
There is another work by RMS in 2010
about Software as a Service or
612
00:38:51,123 --> 00:38:53,163
"service as a software substitute"
as he calls it.
613
00:38:53,483 --> 00:38:57,333
Here, essentially what you have is a main
recommandation about
614
00:38:57,403 --> 00:39:00,844
not using Software as a Service at all.
615
00:39:01,363 --> 00:39:04,724
Essentially there is a recommandation of
doing your own computation
616
00:39:04,763 --> 00:39:06,243
on your own machines.
617
00:39:06,684 --> 00:39:11,203
I think that might be a generally good
recommandation but it's not gonna scale,
618
00:39:11,646 --> 00:39:14,483
it's not gonna be enough in my opinion
to convince people
619
00:39:14,525 --> 00:39:16,603
not to use very convenient services.
620
00:39:16,923 --> 00:39:21,123
Think we need more gradual and blurry
lines saying, encouraging people
621
00:39:21,271 --> 00:39:25,644
to keep computation closer to them,
to rely on federation of friends of people
622
00:39:25,843 --> 00:39:27,484
to do computation together.
623
00:39:27,563 --> 00:39:31,371
And we, as distribution people, could
make easier for them to do so.
624
00:39:31,883 --> 00:39:36,323
And then there is another work which is
"Network Services Aren't Free or Nonfree"
625
00:39:36,763 --> 00:39:40,723
which is a couple of years later, still by RMS,
which essentially tries to walk the fine line
626
00:39:40,963 --> 00:39:44,083
between what's the difference between
a pure service, so a service that
627
00:39:44,203 --> 00:39:47,643
just for instance convey messages,
as opposed to a service which does
628
00:39:47,643 --> 00:39:51,363
computation that could have been
done instead on your machine.
629
00:39:51,523 --> 00:39:55,724
That's a very fine line to work, it's very
difficult to stay there and
630
00:39:55,724 --> 00:40:01,049
what we might need there is a strong
opposition, actually, and we should try
631
00:40:01,291 --> 00:40:05,203
to replace everything which is centralized
with federated equivalent and say that
632
00:40:05,203 --> 00:40:08,945
we as free software people and distribution
people should work in that direction.
633
00:40:09,963 --> 00:40:11,284
So what we could do in Debian.
634
00:40:11,284 --> 00:40:13,611
Well, I think we should try to step
in this debate.
635
00:40:13,875 --> 00:40:20,283
Surprisingly for me, we still have no clear
answer to what it means to be a free service
636
00:40:20,283 --> 00:40:24,283
today and we have quite a bit of
experience in Debian
637
00:40:24,323 --> 00:40:27,203
in leading debates in free sotfware.
638
00:40:27,203 --> 00:40:29,764
We have created the DFSG which is being
used as an example for
639
00:40:29,964 --> 00:40:34,123
many other communities, we have participated
in the GPLv3 discussion for instance.
640
00:40:34,283 --> 00:40:39,124
Our decisions of free license are looked
up by other projects.
641
00:40:39,363 --> 00:40:43,003
So we might have the authority and
the reputation to step in this debate
642
00:40:43,211 --> 00:40:46,569
and we also have a lot of technical
knowledge in the area.
643
00:40:47,043 --> 00:40:52,803
Being a distribution commited to free software,
we know a thing or two not only about
644
00:40:53,043 --> 00:40:58,763
software freedom, but also about how you
deploy software, how difficult it is
645
00:40:58,763 --> 00:41:01,524
and how difficult it should be for people
to deploy free software.
646
00:41:01,843 --> 00:41:06,083
So I think we are in just the sweet spot
to actually enter this debate
647
00:41:06,523 --> 00:41:10,604
with the needed authority and make
a contribution to actually help people
648
00:41:10,803 --> 00:41:13,566
realize what it means today
to use a free service.
649
00:41:14,963 --> 00:41:16,283
The concluding question
I have for you is
650
00:41:16,523 --> 00:41:21,324
"What's Debian take today
on liberating users?".
651
00:41:21,763 --> 00:41:26,384
Would we be happy enough to have Debian
on every machine in the world
652
00:41:26,565 --> 00:41:29,324
if people are using completely
remote services?
653
00:41:29,684 --> 00:41:33,763
And if we were not, what should we do,
what should we be working on to change
654
00:41:34,003 --> 00:41:37,963
that future which seems very much
the future that we have at hand.
655
00:41:39,524 --> 00:41:47,083
Pictures are gone, so there was a cloud
on the left,
656
00:41:47,643 --> 00:41:50,204
there was Debian here and a sun here.
657
00:41:50,523 --> 00:41:54,364
LaTeX, beamer or Tikz or something
is playing tricks on me.
658
00:41:55,004 --> 00:41:58,683
So that's all I have for you, I hope
I've given you some food for thoughts
659
00:41:58,924 --> 00:42:03,324
for this week and if you have any question
or comments in these topics,
660
00:42:03,523 --> 00:42:05,084
I'm very much happy to hear about that.
661
00:42:05,604 --> 00:42:06,483
Thank's a lot.
662
00:42:06,643 --> 00:42:15,563
[applause]
663
00:42:23,123 --> 00:42:25,923
There seems to be a mic which is floating
around down there.
664
00:42:43,564 --> 00:42:49,963
[Q] ??? quite a lot and quite brilliantly
about what cloud computing buzzwords
665
00:42:50,203 --> 00:42:57,603
mean for free software, but I think what important
battle we are actually losing is ???
666
00:42:57,687 --> 00:42:58,723
in the minds of people.
667
00:42:58,924 --> 00:43:02,243
[Q] Why is it young developpers or
newcommers to free software
668
00:43:02,484 --> 00:43:05,603
don't care about software being free?
669
00:43:07,043 --> 00:43:11,603
[Q] Why don't they care about using non free
tools, why don't they care about
670
00:43:11,843 --> 00:43:17,683
which license declare for their software
if any license is at all? and so on.
671
00:43:18,043 --> 00:43:22,883
[Q] You mention that problem, but what do
we do about it? Do you have any ideas?
672
00:43:25,403 --> 00:43:28,843
[Zack] Well, a friend of mine we asked
a similar question I think once answered
673
00:43:29,283 --> 00:43:32,003
"What could they say more that
'Oh those young kids' ".
674
00:43:32,803 --> 00:43:37,123
So, I don't know, maybe it's our fault,
maybe we have failed as a generation
675
00:43:37,163 --> 00:43:40,883
to convey the importance that being
in control of our own computation had,
676
00:43:41,164 --> 00:43:45,923
or maybe it's just that the public that
is open to coding and
677
00:43:45,923 --> 00:43:49,643
hacking is much larger than in the past so
we are reaching out other communities.
678
00:43:50,331 --> 00:43:54,523
It's very good for them to be coding because
I think every citizen in the world need
679
00:43:54,523 --> 00:43:58,283
to have basic knowledge of coding to
understand what's happening in the world,
680
00:43:58,643 --> 00:44:02,363
but maybe they just have different mission
than we had in the past.
681
00:44:04,969 --> 00:44:07,403
So, very good question, I don't have
a very good answer, sorry.
682
00:44:10,803 --> 00:44:11,923
[Q] Hello.
683
00:44:17,513 --> 00:44:22,044
Thank you so much for the wonderful talk,
I think it's great to talk about these
684
00:44:22,284 --> 00:44:29,403
political issues and I see there's a challenge
between the sort of very individual focus
685
00:44:29,563 --> 00:44:34,166
of each person being able to use their own
computer as the wish which has its own values,
686
00:44:35,003 --> 00:44:39,603
but there's a different sort of value that
relates to power structures in general.
687
00:44:40,003 --> 00:44:46,163
So, we're talking about not just how free
is each individual person but whether
688
00:44:46,483 --> 00:44:50,567
an entity like Twitter, Google or Facebook
or some these other services
689
00:44:50,603 --> 00:44:57,164
is a very powerful entity that has power over
the majority of us who use their services.
690
00:44:57,884 --> 00:45:02,963
And so, I wonder if and I'd like your
thoughts on thinking about it
691
00:45:03,083 --> 00:45:09,764
less as a "Is this software free?" but
about "Who is in power in the community?"
692
00:45:09,843 --> 00:45:16,371
and so in a democratic sense, you could have
the community that builds the tools together
693
00:45:16,371 --> 00:45:23,404
as government structures or as mechanisms
for handling power that make the power
694
00:45:23,404 --> 00:45:28,723
bottom-up and more democratic and maybe
that's more important than
695
00:45:28,723 --> 00:45:31,443
the technical status of each
individual user.
696
00:45:32,563 --> 00:45:36,449
[Zack] So, as a concerned citizen and also
as a political activist,
697
00:45:36,564 --> 00:45:39,011
I very much share your concern.
698
00:45:39,403 --> 00:45:46,484
I think we need to focus on what is in
reach on us as geeks in this circle
699
00:45:46,723 --> 00:45:49,324
and have this kind of discussion
in a different circle.
700
00:45:49,607 --> 00:45:54,803
So, as someone with activity in politics
and as a geek, I very much try
701
00:45:54,803 --> 00:45:58,723
to actually explain to politicians and
to activists the role of
702
00:45:58,843 --> 00:46:03,003
what we are doing here in very technical
ways and the impact that it has
703
00:46:03,083 --> 00:46:04,363
on politics in general.
704
00:46:04,884 --> 00:46:07,283
And I think the ??? the talk later on
this evening might have
705
00:46:07,363 --> 00:46:09,163
a thing or two to say about that as well.
706
00:46:09,523 --> 00:46:15,283
So from our part we need to understand it
in some sense even if
707
00:46:15,283 --> 00:46:19,404
we advance a lot the status quo of user
control of technology
708
00:46:19,444 --> 00:46:21,123
that we had thirty years ago.
709
00:46:21,403 --> 00:46:24,483
We have also started to lag behind
many other areas.
710
00:46:24,803 --> 00:46:28,804
Something that I wanted to mention before
but I fail to do so is that
711
00:46:28,843 --> 00:46:32,724
when I was doing my computing in the
nineties, a lot of computations
712
00:46:32,843 --> 00:46:34,803
were mediated by clearly defined
protocols.
713
00:46:35,403 --> 00:46:40,083
So we had RFCs or equivalent documents
by other organisations which were like
714
00:46:40,243 --> 00:46:45,364
clearly marked paths to how to collaborate
technically on the internet
715
00:46:45,603 --> 00:46:47,219
and how to make software talk together.
716
00:46:47,763 --> 00:46:54,644
In a sense, that culture of interoperability
of protocols has actually started lagging
717
00:46:54,763 --> 00:46:57,403
behind a lot with respect
to popular technology.
718
00:46:57,803 --> 00:47:02,923
So stuff like social networks, most of them
except the good ones that free software guys
719
00:47:03,163 --> 00:47:08,764
try to build like pump.io or like diaspora,
well all those technologies started up
720
00:47:09,003 --> 00:47:12,203
without any kind of interoperability
in mind.
721
00:47:12,723 --> 00:47:18,123
So technically I think we need to push
again on the direction of interoperability
722
00:47:18,165 --> 00:47:21,523
of protocols, and that's a technical
contribution that we could do that
723
00:47:21,603 --> 00:47:22,804
will have an impact.
724
00:47:22,883 --> 00:47:26,683
You know, code is law, as Lessig was saying,
and that would have a technical impact
725
00:47:26,723 --> 00:47:28,363
on the power structures you mention.
726
00:47:28,803 --> 00:47:30,603
That's my thought on this matter.
727
00:47:33,403 --> 00:47:35,563
[Q] I have an answer.
728
00:47:35,563 --> 00:47:36,563
Hello.
729
00:47:36,604 --> 00:47:40,083
I have an answer, sort of an answer
to the previous question.
730
00:47:40,325 --> 00:47:46,563
This is of course the heart of the difference
between free software and open source.
731
00:47:47,043 --> 00:47:50,683
The difference between free software and
open source isn't nothing at all
732
00:47:50,883 --> 00:47:53,043
and it's not about licenses.
733
00:47:53,483 --> 00:47:55,603
It's about goals and aims.
734
00:47:56,043 --> 00:48:05,245
Over the past decades, many of us have
chosen not to pick a fight with
735
00:48:05,524 --> 00:48:11,963
open source people just for an easy life and,
you know, it's always easy to have somebody
736
00:48:12,402 --> 00:48:17,204
who might share some of your goals and
to be able to collaborate with them.
737
00:48:17,723 --> 00:48:20,818
But less and less is it becoming
the case that
738
00:48:21,723 --> 00:48:27,446
the goals of people who are doing open
source are the same as the goals
739
00:48:27,643 --> 00:48:29,283
of people doing free software.
740
00:48:29,803 --> 00:48:35,124
You can see that very clearly
in the responses from people like
741
00:48:35,124 --> 00:48:37,003
Google to things like the AGPL.
742
00:48:37,683 --> 00:48:39,563
And there are a lot of examples.
743
00:48:41,011 --> 00:48:45,203
So, one of the things that we can do
to try and bring some of
744
00:48:45,363 --> 00:48:49,243
the new crop of developpers along with us
is to actually make it
745
00:48:49,324 --> 00:48:51,483
a bit more of a fuss about…
746
00:48:52,243 --> 00:48:55,118
You know, let's not come ??? all Stallman
about that,
747
00:48:55,118 --> 00:49:00,403
Stallman is not the best PR guy, but I think
Debian can do a lot better than he can
748
00:49:00,626 --> 00:49:03,243
and we've probably got
a lot more credibility.
749
00:49:03,923 --> 00:49:06,043
And individually, we have as well.
750
00:49:06,443 --> 00:49:15,004
What we need to do is we need to explain
our vision to those new developpers
751
00:49:15,244 --> 00:49:21,843
who mostly are just being, you know, they
see an open source marketing machine
752
00:49:22,123 --> 00:49:23,363
and we are something different.
753
00:49:25,583 --> 00:49:26,485
[Zack] Thanks.
754
00:49:26,485 --> 00:49:30,118
So there's not need to be questions and
answers, so if you have comments, feel free.
755
00:49:31,433 --> 00:49:34,323
[Talkmeister] I think we're running short of
time and we need to take one more question.
756
00:49:35,003 --> 00:49:37,843
So maybe one last or, Stefano, one last?
757
00:49:38,403 --> 00:49:38,963
[Talkmeister] We can.
758
00:49:39,843 --> 00:49:41,483
Ok, one last question or comment?
759
00:49:41,803 --> 00:49:43,684
[Q] Just a quick comment if I may.
760
00:49:43,963 --> 00:49:48,603
You talked about federated services and
facebook and dropbox and that sort of thing.
761
00:49:49,163 --> 00:49:55,683
I think maybe the issue here is less about
federated services but is about identity.
762
00:49:56,564 --> 00:50:02,043
If I have my own dropbox alike and you have
your own dropbox alike,
763
00:50:02,197 --> 00:50:05,730
the problem is not that the two couldn't
talk to each other,
764
00:50:05,923 --> 00:50:11,524
we have no way of negotiation of identity
authentication, access kind of problem.
765
00:50:11,923 --> 00:50:14,203
I think maybe part of the answer to your
question is
766
00:50:14,323 --> 00:50:18,043
"Can we come up with some way of allowing
federated identity management
767
00:50:18,243 --> 00:50:22,243
for people in general and just us say".
768
00:50:23,163 --> 00:50:27,363
[Zack] I think this is very much related
to what I was answering before to Aaron,
769
00:50:27,723 --> 00:50:28,963
in the sense "yes we could".
770
00:50:29,405 --> 00:50:33,486
We have shown in the past that we can
come up with very smart protocols
771
00:50:33,486 --> 00:50:36,603
that allow people to technically
interoperate over the net.
772
00:50:36,963 --> 00:50:40,644
But we are coming to late for that.
773
00:50:40,923 --> 00:50:44,972
Those big entities which now have the power
to attract a lot of users to them
774
00:50:45,244 --> 00:50:49,123
developped before those standard
that we could have used to make
775
00:50:49,404 --> 00:50:53,163
smaller entities interoperate could
have been put in place.
776
00:50:53,529 --> 00:50:57,243
So yes, I agree with you, there is technical
work to be done but in some sense
777
00:50:57,243 --> 00:51:01,883
we are late in doing that work and
the question now is not only
778
00:51:02,124 --> 00:51:05,923
"How could we do the technical work that
allows us to have smaller entities
779
00:51:05,923 --> 00:51:10,203
that interoperate for authentication or
everything else?" and also
780
00:51:10,483 --> 00:51:15,563
"How do we migrate from the status quo to
the ideal world that would be possible
781
00:51:15,603 --> 00:51:17,643
if those standards existed
in the first place?".
782
00:51:18,206 --> 00:51:22,483
So in a sense I think we are a bit late
and we have twice the work to be done
783
00:51:22,763 --> 00:51:26,083
before reaching the optimal and more
federated situation which I think
784
00:51:26,243 --> 00:51:27,443
would solve the problem.
785
00:51:29,963 --> 00:51:31,444
So, thanks a lot.
786
00:51:31,603 --> 00:51:39,833
[applause]
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 836 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/debconfsubs-team/attachments/20150126/ff67111d/attachment-0001.sig>
More information about the Debconfsubs-team
mailing list