[Freedombox-discuss] Rouge Freedomboxes and government intervention

Wed Jun 22 23:33:45 UTC 2011

On 11-06-22 at 04:23pm, Neophyte Representative wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Jonas Smedegaard - dr at jones.dk wrote:
> > On 11-06-22 at 02:28pm, Neophyte Representative wrote:
> >> On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 2:34 AM, Jonas Smedegaard - dr at jones.dk wrote:
> >> >
> >> > We should continuously have all possible use cases in mind, but 
> >> > prioritize those easy to provide rather than those with most 
> >> > direct benefit for users involved in most obvious 
> >> > freedom-enabling activities.
> >> >
> >> > Both segments care, else they don't buy FreedomBox at all.
> >> >
> >> > Example: Karla is increasingly frustrated with her government, is 
> >> > politically active, and may start an uprising in 3 months. 
> >> >  Joanna is supportive of political activism but is more into 
> >> > partying and chasing guys, not willing to get up on the 
> >> > barricades.  Joanna and Karla both want a FreedomBox. 
> >> >  FreedomBox-dating already exist in Debian testing, but 
> >> > FreedomBox-stealth is still so flaky it is not even packaged for 
> >> > Debian yet.
> >> >
> >> > Do we then...
> >> >
> >> >  a) release FreedomBox 1.0 in 6 months with -dating only,
> >> >    and FreedomBox 2.0 in maybe 1 year with -stealth added,
> >> >    prioritizing all parts being reliable and maintainable.
> >> >  b) release FreedomBox 1.0 in 6 months with -dating and -stealth,
> >> >    prioritizing urgent features for urgent matters (even if flaky
> >> >    and perhaps even dangerous for Karla to use).
> >> >  c) release FreedomBox 1.0 in 1 month with -dating and -stealth,
> >> >    prioritizing urgent features for urgent matters (even if flaky
> >> >    and perhaps even dangerous for both Karla and Joanna to use).
> >> >
> >>
> >> You don't have any idea what quality or quantity of reliably 
> >> available developmental labor units you will have available to even 
> >> try to push the schedule around in this manner.
> >
> > Yes, I do have an idea: Get stuff packaged for Debian so that it can 
> > be qualified/quantified a.k.a. get some eyeballs to make all bugs 
> > shallow. Stuff in Debian unstable is sensible to consider 
> > "unstable", and stuff so thoroughly "starred at" that it has 
> > trickled down into Debian stable is sensible to consider as 
> > "stable".
> >
> >
> >> The last thing I think you would want to do is put Karla in any 
> >> serious danger of over-estimating the utility of FreedomBox in 
> >> protecting her anonymity while facilitating her quest for 
> >> governmental improvement, regardless of Joanna's uses.  Joanna can 
> >> probably be fully satisfied with reasonable use of today's spyware 
> >> infected commercial offerings.  Karla, in the most dangerous case, 
> >> can't.
> >
> > In my opinion only option a) makes sense (among above three 
> > options).
> >
> > I agree that Joanna would be ok waiting a couple of years for a 
> > Facebook replacement, but she is supportive of political activism so 
> > given the option of FreedomBox 1.0 (a.k.a. "silly" edition without 
> > -stealth) she would favor that, because it could help Karla 
> > slightly: Karla would lack stealth (and a bunch of other features 
> > quite helpful for overthrowing a regime) but would at least not be 
> > sold out by Zuckerberg - while we reliably extended FreedomBox with 
> > more radical features.
> >
> 
> Hmmm, I'm beginning to understand where I'm really having trouble with 
> your plans.
> 
> For a committed, deeply involved (willing to make the ultimate 
> sacrifice) political activist like Karla, anything that gives the 
> opposition a chance to find the activist represents too high a risk. 
> S/he must not be lulled into relying upon our product naively.
> 
> It is, indeed, a legitimate, interim goal to reduce the reliance of 
> folks like Joanna upon products like the other FB.  That does further 
> the goal of Freedom.  Perhaps we should coin another name for that 
> project to avoid the high risk represented to the naive by the full 
> name of this FB.
> 
> We've already had deaths of many naive folks in Libya who thought all 
> they needed was enthusiasm and numbers against modern weapons only 
> slightly countered by International intervention.  The International 
> response in Libya in 2011 may be an improvement over the response in 
> Hungary in 1956, but I don't think we need to set up such a mismatch 
> in another arena.  We need Freedom Fighters, not Dead Freedom 
> Fighters.  Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jr., and 
> Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela were all opposed to and by relatively 
> civilized governments.  Libya and Syria indicate that may not always 
> be the case.

So due to violent regimes killing Karlas, you suggest we do not label a 
box helping Joannas making a silverlining of the cloud as "FreedomBox"?

 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
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