[Freedombox-discuss] What UI?

Thu Nov 10 14:46:49 UTC 2011

The samples you link are about the social networking app.  That's a
separate thing from the config UI, although I do think it would be good
if they looked similar in style.

Plinth isn't about what it looks like.  Plinth is about the functional
infrastructure of a common place to put config UI elements.  I sort of
assume the look of the elements will change.

On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:05:53 +0100, Robert Martinez <mail at mray.de> wrote:
> This looks more like what I expected.
> All ideas in the wiki seem more of an alternative diaspora interface 
> with more options:
> 
> http://wiki.debian.org/FreedomBox/UserInterface#Ideas
> 
> What *exactly* will be the tasks that the interface should be able to do 
> in the end?
> If there is no list, maybe it would be a good idea to work one out.
> There seems to be lots of different ideas about that.
> 
> 
> On 10/11/11 14:50, James Vasile wrote:
> > I took a screen shot.  All text and such are placeholders.
> >
From: James Vasile <vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [Freedombox-discuss] What UI?
To: Rick <graham.rick at gmail.com>
Cc: Jonas Smedegaard <dr at jones.dk>, freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
In-Reply-To: <CAGDjS3dZtp7xO=xiYYjk=huaEUtC4GPcKcYYtJ1KOcYsEOg2kw at mail.gmail.com>
References: <4EBB0969.5000807 at mray.de> <87fwhwirbq.fsf at wyzanski.jamesvasile.com> <20111110034557.GB18338 at jones.dk> <874nychze4.fsf at wyzanski.jamesvasile.com> <CAGDjS3dZtp7xO=xiYYjk=huaEUtC4GPcKcYYtJ1KOcYsEOg2kw at mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 09:05:49 -0500, Rick <graham.rick at gmail.com> wrote:
Non-text part: multipart/alternative
> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 8:37 AM, James Vasile <
> vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org> wrote:
> 
> > The idea is that it's a universal place to put config/ui.  You drop
> > modules in it to populate the menus.  I think users would prefer a
> > task-oriented, cross-app config instead of a per-app config
> > per-application config.  I might be wrong about that, but I think it's
> > true.
> >
> 
> Anyone would like that, assuming it works and you don't give up too much to
> get it.
> 
> One of my problems with Ubuntu is that they are too free and easy with
> changing setup.  They use a big hammer and just throw out the traditional
> configuration setups, ostensibly to create an environment that is easier to
> work with.  If you are a developer, the reverse is true, configuration
> becomes difficult and frustrating because someone has changed all the rules.
> 
> Don't do that.  It's fine to put GUI on top, but stick with the Debian way
> at the lowest level and maintain a system where those config files are
> authorative.
> 
> -- 
> Politicians should wear uniforms like Nascar drivers.
> Emblazoned with their corporate sponsors.
Non-text part: text/html
From: James Vasile <vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [Freedombox-discuss] What UI?
To: Robert Martinez <mail at mray.de>
Cc: freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
In-Reply-To: <871utghysp.fsf at wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
References: <4EBB0969.5000807 at mray.de> <87fwhwirbq.fsf at wyzanski.jamesvasile.com> <4EBBB8E1.6040700 at mray.de> <871utghysp.fsf at wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>

On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 08:50:14 -0500, James Vasile <vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org> wrote:
Non-text part: multipart/mixed
> I took a screen shot.  All text and such are placeholders.
> 
Attachment: plinth_screenshot.png (image/png)
From: James Vasile <vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [Freedombox-discuss] What UI?
To: Jonas Smedegaard <dr at jones.dk>, freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
In-Reply-To: <874nychze4.fsf at wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
References: <4EBB0969.5000807 at mray.de> <87fwhwirbq.fsf at wyzanski.jamesvasile.com> <20111110034557.GB18338 at jones.dk> <874nychze4.fsf at wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>

On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 08:37:23 -0500, James Vasile <vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org> wrote:
> The idea is that it's a universal place to put config/ui.  You drop
> modules in it to populate the menus.  I think users would prefer a
> task-oriented, cross-app config instead of a per-app config
> per-application config.  I might be wrong about that, but I think it's
> true.
> 
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 11:45:57 +0800, Jonas Smedegaard <dr at jones.dk> wrote:
> Non-text part: multipart/mixed
> Non-text part: multipart/signed
> > On 11-11-09 at 10:34pm, James Vasile wrote:
> > > Take a look at <http://github.com/jvasile/plinth>.  Right now that's the
> > > only proposal for a UI platform.  Somebody suggested LUCI to me today,
> > > though I don't think it quite suits.
> > 
> > Interesting!
> > 
> > I notice it is targeted specifically at "every aspect of a Freedom Box".
> > 
> > Could you perhaps elaborate on why that is?
> > 
> > Reason I ask is I am concerned about the amount of eyeballs caring to 
> > cross-examine the quality of code targeted a specific device rather than 
> > something more generally usable in Debian.
> > 
> > 
> > Kind regards,
> > 
> >  - Jonas
> > 
> > -- 
> >  * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
> >  * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
> > 
> >  [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
> Non-text part: application/pgp-signature
> > _______________________________________________
> > Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> > Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> > http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
From: James Vasile <vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [Freedombox-discuss] What UI?
To: Robert Martinez <mail at mray.de>
Cc: freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
In-Reply-To: <4EBBB8E1.6040700 at mray.de>
References: <4EBB0969.5000807 at mray.de> <87fwhwirbq.fsf at wyzanski.jamesvasile.com> <4EBBB8E1.6040700 at mray.de>

On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:43:29 +0100, Robert Martinez <mail at mray.de> wrote:
> Is there anything visual yet (screenshot/mockup)?
> 
> On 10/11/11 04:34, James Vasile wrote:
> > Take a look at<http://github.com/jvasile/plinth>.  Right now that's the
> > only proposal for a UI platform.  Somebody suggested LUCI to me today,
> > though I don't think it quite suits.
> >
> > I welcome other proposals!
> >
> > On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 00:14:49 +0100, Robert Martinez<mail at mray.de>  wrote:
> >> I'm curious what kind of user interface may be available for users.
> >> So my question to all the coding wizards out there is:
> >>
> >> Will there be any in the first releases?
> >> Will it be some kind of web interface like my router has?
> >> Will it control all main services - or will there be different ones for
> >> each?
> >>
> >> I now these questions are hard to answer right now.
> >> But what can I probably expect?
> >>
> >>
> >> Robert
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> >> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> >> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
From: James Vasile <vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [Freedombox-discuss] What UI?
To: Robert Martinez <mail at mray.de>, Nick Daly <nick.m.daly at gmail.com>
Cc: freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
In-Reply-To: <4EBBB30D.3080304 at mray.de>
References: <4EBB0969.5000807 at mray.de> <87liropxx3.fsf at debian.home> <4EBBB30D.3080304 at mray.de>

On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:18:37 +0100, Robert Martinez <mail at mray.de> wrote:
> Freedombox wants to *replace* the UI of all services it makes use of 
> (status.net, diaspora/friendster, music streaming, *whatever*), and 
> create one that unites them all? o_0
> All three ideas on the wiki seem to suggest that!
> 
> I expected to still make use of the admin interface of each service that 
> has one,
> and providing just an interface to enable/disable them, maybe with 
> additional interfaces for xmpp, mail and all other stuff that does not 
> come with an native interface.
> 
> What does online identity mean here?:
> "This interface will be dedicated for users (being owner of the box or 
> just users) to manage their online identities."
> 
> I'm just trying to get a picture of all this in my head.
> 
> 
> Robert
> 
> On 10/11/11 02:29, Nick Daly wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > Robert Martinez<mail at mray.de>  writes:
> >
> >> I'm curious what kind of user interface may be available for users.
> >> So my question to all the coding wizards out there is:
> >>
> >> Will there be any in the first releases?
> >> Will it be some kind of web interface like my router has?
> >> Will it control all main services - or will there be different ones
> >> for each?
> >>
> >> I now these questions are hard to answer right now.
> >> But what can I probably expect?
> > You can expect a web-based UI.  Most plug-servers aren't powerful enough
> > to run an X-server.  Even for those servers that can, their processing
> > power and RAM is probably better spent handling additional
> > clients/connections.
> >
> > There are a few suggestions for a web-based UI in:
> >
> >      http://wiki.debian.org/FreedomBox/UserInterface
> >
> > Nick
> > - -- 
> > GPG: 0x0928D23A | D95C 3204 2EE5 4FFD B25E  C348 9F27 33F4 0928 D23A
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
From: James Vasile <vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [Freedombox-discuss] What UI?
To: mirsal <mirsal at mirsal.fr>, freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
In-Reply-To: <1320918116.28913.9.camel at mirsal-laptop1.mirsal.fr>
References: <4EBB0969.5000807 at mray.de> <87fwhwirbq.fsf at wyzanski.jamesvasile.com> <20111110034557.GB18338 at jones.dk> <1320918116.28913.9.camel at mirsal-laptop1.mirsal.fr>

On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 10:41:56 +0100, mirsal <mirsal at mirsal.fr> wrote:
Non-text part: multipart/mixed
Non-text part: multipart/signed
> On Thu, 2011-11-10 at 11:45 +0800, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > On 11-11-09 at 10:34pm, James Vasile wrote:
> > > Take a look at <http://github.com/jvasile/plinth>.  Right now that's the
> > > only proposal for a UI platform.  Somebody suggested LUCI to me today,
> > > though I don't think it quite suits.
> > 
> > Interesting!
> > 
> > I notice it is targeted specifically at "every aspect of a Freedom Box".
> > 
> > Could you perhaps elaborate on why that is?
> > 
> > Reason I ask is I am concerned about the amount of eyeballs caring to 
> > cross-examine the quality of code targeted a specific device rather than 
> > something more generally usable in Debian.
> 
> Owncloud[1] can also be seen as a sensible basis for a freedombox web
> ui. It already includes UIs for file listing / sharing, calendars,
> contacts etc. as well as a (php) micro web framework (MVC, database
> abstraction, templating, navigation...) which enables new UIs like the
> one we are planning for configuring a wireless router to be created on
> top of it.
> 
> [1] http://www.owncloud.org
> 
> -- 
> mirsal 
Non-text part: application/pgp-signature
> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discussFrom: James Vasile <vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [Freedombox-discuss] What UI?
To: Weaver <weaver at riseup.net>, freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
In-Reply-To: <20111110160722.2dfad97a.weaver at riseup.net>
References: <4EBB0969.5000807 at mray.de> <87liropxx3.fsf at debian.home> <20111110032844.GA18338 at jones.dk> <4EBB63A7.8020000 at doukki.net> <20111110160722.2dfad97a.weaver at riseup.net>

On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 16:07:22 +1000, Weaver <weaver at riseup.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 06:39:51 +0100
> DrEagle <dreagle at doukki.net> wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> 
> Hello,
> > 
> > >> You can expect a web-based UI.
> 
> Where is this to be mounted?
> In a way in which, if access to it is removed, it doesn't shut down the
> entire network?
> Regards,
> 
> Weaver.
> 
> -- 
> "In a world without walls and fences, 
> what need have we for Windows or Gates?"
> -Anon.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
From: James Vasile <vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [Freedombox-discuss] What UI?
To: DrEagle <dreagle at doukki.net>, freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
In-Reply-To: <4EBB63A7.8020000 at doukki.net>
References: <4EBB0969.5000807 at mray.de> <87liropxx3.fsf at debian.home> <20111110032844.GA18338 at jones.dk> <4EBB63A7.8020000 at doukki.net>

On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 06:39:51 +0100, DrEagle <dreagle at doukki.net> wrote:
Non-text part: multipart/mixed
Non-text part: multipart/signed
> Hi,
> 
> >> You can expect a web-based UI.
> 
> What about the OpenPanel project ?
> 
> www.openpanel.com
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> -- 
> Gk2 [:-]
> 
Attachment: signature.asc (application/pgp-signature)
> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discussFrom: James Vasile <vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [Freedombox-discuss] What UI?
To: Jonas Smedegaard <dr at jones.dk>, freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
In-Reply-To: <20111110034557.GB18338 at jones.dk>
References: <4EBB0969.5000807 at mray.de> <87fwhwirbq.fsf at wyzanski.jamesvasile.com> <20111110034557.GB18338 at jones.dk>

On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 11:45:57 +0800, Jonas Smedegaard <dr at jones.dk> wrote:
Non-text part: multipart/mixed
Non-text part: multipart/signed
> On 11-11-09 at 10:34pm, James Vasile wrote:
> > Take a look at <http://github.com/jvasile/plinth>.  Right now that's the
> > only proposal for a UI platform.  Somebody suggested LUCI to me today,
> > though I don't think it quite suits.
> 
> Interesting!
> 
> I notice it is targeted specifically at "every aspect of a Freedom Box".
> 
> Could you perhaps elaborate on why that is?
> 
> Reason I ask is I am concerned about the amount of eyeballs caring to 
> cross-examine the quality of code targeted a specific device rather than 
> something more generally usable in Debian.
> 
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
>  - Jonas
> 
> -- 
>  * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
>  * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
> 
>  [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
Non-text part: application/pgp-signature
> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discussFrom: James Vasile <vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [Freedombox-discuss] What UI?
To: Robert Martinez <mail at mray.de>, freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
In-Reply-To: <87fwhwirbq.fsf at wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>
References: <4EBB0969.5000807 at mray.de> <87fwhwirbq.fsf at wyzanski.jamesvasile.com>

On Wed, 09 Nov 2011 22:34:01 -0500, James Vasile <vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org> wrote:
> Take a look at <http://github.com/jvasile/plinth>.  Right now that's the
> only proposal for a UI platform.  Somebody suggested LUCI to me today,
> though I don't think it quite suits.
> 
> I welcome other proposals!
> 
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 00:14:49 +0100, Robert Martinez <mail at mray.de> wrote:
> > I'm curious what kind of user interface may be available for users.
> > So my question to all the coding wizards out there is:
> > 
> > Will there be any in the first releases?
> > Will it be some kind of web interface like my router has?
> > Will it control all main services - or will there be different ones for 
> > each?
> > 
> > I now these questions are hard to answer right now.
> > But what can I probably expect?
> > 
> > 
> > Robert
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> > Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> > http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss
From: James Vasile <vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [Freedombox-discuss] What UI?
To: Jonas Smedegaard <dr at jones.dk>, freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
In-Reply-To: <20111110032844.GA18338 at jones.dk>
References: <4EBB0969.5000807 at mray.de> <87liropxx3.fsf at debian.home> <20111110032844.GA18338 at jones.dk>

On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 11:28:44 +0800, Jonas Smedegaard <dr at jones.dk> wrote:
Non-text part: multipart/mixed
Non-text part: multipart/signed
> Hi Nick and Robert,
> 
> On 11-11-09 at 07:29pm, Nick Daly wrote:
> > Robert Martinez <mail at mray.de> writes:
> > 
> > > I'm curious what kind of user interface may be available for users.
> > > So my question to all the coding wizards out there is:
> > >
> > > Will there be any in the first releases?
> > > Will it be some kind of web interface like my router has?
> > > Will it control all main services - or will there be different ones
> > > for each?
> > >
> > > I now these questions are hard to answer right now.
> > > But what can I probably expect?
> > 
> > You can expect a web-based UI.
> 
> FreedomBox is developed by volunteer efforts.  So you can expect to 
> choose from the user interfaces that volunteers come up with.  Which 
> might me multiple ones (perhaps including a deliberate "none"), or it 
> might be lacking completely (meaning it needs one but noone volunteerd 
> to do it).
> 
> Most discussions so far have been on web-based UI.  Which might only 
> mean that most "philosophers" among us think in that direction - but 
> hopefully it will be followed by actual contributions :-)
> 
> There are other possible options too, but less talked about - which 
> might mean noone cares, or perhaps that they are so obvious than no 
> discussion is needed, just volunteers to implement them ;-)
> 
> 
> > Most plug-servers aren't powerful enough to run an X-server.  Even for 
> > those servers that can, their processing power and RAM is probably 
> > better spent handling additional clients/connections.
> 
> There are other options for UI than web and X11.
> 
> I proposed a couple of alternatives (and more importantly to not 
> restrict ourselves to a single UI!) here: 
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/freedombox-discuss/2011-August/002596.html
> 
> 
> I am currently on a 2 ½ month journey through India and East Asia to 
> talk about Debian Pure Blends - which includes (software aspects of) 
> FreedomBox.  Some 10-15 people in Hyderabad, Mangalore and Bangalore 
> showed interest in working on my proposed chat interfaces.  We'll see 
> how many of them (if any) appear on this list and start make noise about 
> it.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
>  - Jonas
> 
> -- 
>  * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
>  * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
> 
>  [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
Non-text part: application/pgp-signature
> _______________________________________________
> Freedombox-discuss mailing list
> Freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discussFrom: James Vasile <vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [Freedombox-discuss] What UI?
To: Nick Daly <nick.m.daly at gmail.com>, Robert Martinez <mail at mray.de>
Cc: freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
In-Reply-To: <87liropxx3.fsf at debian.home>
References: <4EBB0969.5000807 at mray.de> <87liropxx3.fsf at debian.home>

On Wed, 09 Nov 2011 19:29:44 -0600, Nick Daly <nick.m.daly at gmail.com> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Robert Martinez <mail at mray.de> writes:
> 
> > I'm curious what kind of user interface may be available for users.
> > So my question to all the coding wizards out there is:
> >
> > Will there be any in the first releases?
> > Will it be some kind of web interface like my router has?
> > Will it control all main services - or will there be different ones
> > for each?
> >
> > I now these questions are hard to answer right now.
> > But what can I probably expect?
> 
> You can expect a web-based UI.  Most plug-servers aren't powerful enough
> to run an X-server.  Even for those servers that can, their processing
> power and RAM is probably better spent handling additional
> clients/connections.
> 
> There are a few suggestions for a web-based UI in:
> 
>     http://wiki.debian.org/FreedomBox/UserInterface
> 
> Nick
> - -- 
> GPG: 0x0928D23A | D95C 3204 2EE5 4FFD B25E  C348 9F27 33F4 0928 D23A
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
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> 
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From: James Vasile <vasile at freedomboxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [Freedombox-discuss] What UI?
To: Robert Martinez <mail at mray.de>, freedombox-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
In-Reply-To: <4EBB0969.5000807 at mray.de>
References: <4EBB0969.5000807 at mray.de>

On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 00:14:49 +0100, Robert Martinez <mail at mray.de> wrote:
> I'm curious what kind of user interface may be available for users.
> So my question to all the coding wizards out there is:
> 
> Will there be any in the first releases?
> Will it be some kind of web interface like my router has?
> Will it control all main services - or will there be different ones for 
> each?
> 
> I now these questions are hard to answer right now.
> But what can I probably expect?
> 
> 
> Robert
> 
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