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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=828293605-22072011>Hi
Everybody,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=828293605-22072011></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=828293605-22072011>There has been been
a lot of heated and name calling on the mailing list
recently;</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=828293605-22072011><quote></SPAN></FONT></DIV><FONT><SPAN
class=828293605-22072011><SPAN lang=EN>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>On 11-07-21 at 05:38pm, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
wrote:</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>> this is a complex project WHERE THE REQUIRED
SOFTWARE DOESN'T EXIST.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>> have i said it enough times, you
think??</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Yes. One time was one too many,</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>This project is about putting together existing
tools.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Other projects exist to invent software.</FONT></P>
<DIV></SPAN><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2> -<SPAN lang=EN>
Jonas</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN lang=EN><SPAN class=828293605-22072011><FONT face=Arial
size=2></quote></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN lang=EN><SPAN class=828293605-22072011><FONT face=Arial
size=2><quote></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN lang=EN><SPAN class=828293605-22072011></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
lang=EN><SPAN class=828293605-22072011><SPAN lang=EN>Fbox and nextnet used to be
awesome lists. Then the philsophers/"architects" show up. Useful discussion to
accomplishing results disapears.</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN lang=EN><SPAN class=828293605-22072011><SPAN
lang=EN></quote></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN lang=EN><SPAN class=828293605-22072011><SPAN lang=EN><FONT face=Arial
size=2>I think this is quite disappointing for a project with such high
aspirations, </FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN lang=EN><SPAN class=828293605-22072011><SPAN lang=EN><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN lang=EN><SPAN class=828293605-22072011><SPAN lang=EN><FONT face=Arial
size=2>I think the name calling can be put down to "The Great FreedomBox
Conspiracy Theory". Basically, the Great Philosopher promised people who gave
him money a FreedomBox full of "Debianised" toys from the Packagers, which would
do everything to protect Freedom Fighters except mesh computing. Of course, the
mere mention of the toys "freedom and privacy" drew donations
from Philosophers and Architectures who felt that after donating they had a
right to be heard at the
Foundation. </FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN lang=EN><SPAN class=828293605-22072011><SPAN lang=EN><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN lang=EN><SPAN class=828293605-22072011><SPAN lang=EN><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Next, the "Is/Is Not" Manifest was published by the Foundation which
was so general the Philosophers/Architects started talking about their new
toys. After a while one of the Philosophers wondered were they
just talking amongst themselves, which caused the Great Philosopher and his
Packagers to issue the Great Update and t</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
lang=EN><SPAN class=828293605-22072011><SPAN lang=EN><FONT face=Arial
size=2>hen the Working Group Proposal. Under the
Proposal, Architects could talk amongst themselves in their
"UI/UX" meeting room; Philosophers could talk amongst themselves in the
Peer to Peer Model meeting room, while Packagers got their own meeting
rooms such a Networking Protocols and Security Meeting Rooms.
.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN lang=EN><SPAN class=828293605-22072011><SPAN lang=EN><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN lang=EN><SPAN class=828293605-22072011><SPAN lang=EN><FONT face=Arial
size=2>However, before the meeting rooms were built one
Philosopher demanded his new toy to be invented now by the Packagers. The
Packagers said it was only their job to Debianise existing toys and not create
inventions thus revealing the Great FreedomBox Conspiracy Theory.
The Architects realised that it's the Packagers who choose the UI of
the Debianised toys. The Philosophers realised that it's the Packagers who
choose the Peer to Peer Model of the Debianised toys. The Architects
and Philosophers felt their contributions were of no value to the
FreedomBox and they were only being tolerated because of their donations. The
Packagers felt that they donate money and their time to do all the work so
they should choose the UI and Peer to Peer Model for the Debianised
Toys of the FreedomBox. War broke out.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN lang=EN><SPAN class=828293605-22072011><SPAN lang=EN><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN lang=EN><SPAN class=828293605-22072011><SPAN lang=EN><FONT face=Arial
size=2>First of all, I hope everybody can see the different parts they
play in the story (I am a Philosopher and a bit of an Architect), and I
hope you also noticed I used nice language so that people wouldn't get
offended. Another Architect proposed a UI (1) which involved what looks like a
considerably amount of work to me. It's my impression, that work is going to be
ignored simply because FreedomBox will use whatever UI comes with a software
package, i.e. FreedomBox packages and does not invent. I do not have an issue
with principle of packaging, but I do not want to be wasting my time doing UI
work that will be superseded by the UI of a chosen package. The same goes
for the Peer to Peer Model Working Group work.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN lang=EN><SPAN class=828293605-22072011><SPAN lang=EN><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN lang=EN><SPAN class=828293605-22072011><SPAN lang=EN><FONT face=Arial
size=2>I think the Foundation needs to be honest with if/how non-packagers can
contribute to the project and I think a good time to do that would be when
the FreedomBox Roadmap is released sometime after the Debcon hacking
fest. I will make a couple of wiki posts to scratch an itch, but then I
will step back from the project until I see the
Roadmap.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN lang=EN><SPAN class=828293605-22072011><SPAN lang=EN><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN lang=EN><SPAN class=828293605-22072011><SPAN lang=EN><FONT face=Arial
size=2>At the end of the day, I will buy a FreedomBox because there will be
nothing better out there and I am happy if that's my only genuine contribution.
Please don't just tolerate me because I donated to the project, I would rather
know now, if there is a genuine opportunity to contribute my thoughts and ideas,
or if this is a mindless brainstorming session for the likes of
me without an actual outcome.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN lang=EN><SPAN class=828293605-22072011><SPAN lang=EN><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN lang=EN><SPAN class=828293605-22072011><SPAN lang=EN><FONT face=Arial
size=2>I wish the project much success.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN lang=EN><SPAN class=828293605-22072011><SPAN lang=EN><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN lang=EN><SPAN class=828293605-22072011><SPAN lang=EN><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN lang=EN><SPAN class=828293605-22072011><SPAN lang=EN><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN lang=EN><SPAN class=828293605-22072011><SPAN lang=EN><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT> </DIV></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></BODY></HTML>