[Fsf-Debian] Non-free firmware question during install

[Paul van der Vlis]

Op 07-08-12 19:48, Ian Jackson schreef:
> Paul van der Vlis writes ("Re: [Fsf-Debian] Non-free firmware question during install"):
>> Op 07-08-12 16:49, Gunnar Wolf schreef:
>>> «Some of your hardware needs firmware to operate; to the best of our
>>> knowledge, only non-free firmware exists that can be used to run this
>>> hardware». Would that be OK?
>>
>> Hmmm. It's OK, but I don't like it. I would like to avoid the word
>> "non-free" and talk about the positive other side, about "free".
>>
>> What about:
>> Some of your hardware needs firmware to operate. Debian only ships free
>> firmware and probably there was no free firmware available for your
>> hardware at the time this installer was made.
> 
> The problem with that wording is that it's pretending that the
> non-free firmware doesn't exist.  The user might not realise that
> actually they could get a nearly-completely-free system working on
> their computer, and might well give up and install a non-free OS
> instead.  I also think it's verging on dishonesty.

You have a point.

>> But if we do not talk about nonfree firmware, we do not need to tell
>> that we do not recommended it.
> 
> We absolutely do need to mention that it exists.  Otherwise we are
> deceiving the user by omission - failing to mention that there are
> other options besides giving up entirely.
> 
> Our commitment to freedom does not mean that we should be deliberately
> concealing non-free options from our users, where it is likely that
> our user would choose to use a non-free option as opposed to just
> giving up.
> 
> To think of it another way: if we respect our friends we don't conceal
> from them some choices because we think they're a bad idea even if we
> think our friend might like them.  And we need to treat our users as
> our friends and allies, and respect them; not treat them like some
> people would treat their children.

I don't have problems with loading nonfree firmware. The alternative is
in most cases nonfree firmware in a (flash)rom, in my opinion exactly
the same.

Here a new try:
---------
| detect network hardware
|
| Some of your hardware needs firmware to operate. Debian only ships
| free firmware and probably there was no free firmware available for
| your hardware at the time this installer was made.
|
| We do not recommended it, but it is also an option to install non-free
| firmware.
|
| The missing firmware files are: ......
|
| Firmware can be loaded from removable media, such as an USB stick or
| floppy.
|
| [...]
--------

If we want to make it a bit more userfriendly, we need to point to a
website with the non-free firmware. But I expect the FSF would not like
that (I would not have problems with it).

With regards,
Paul van der Vlis.

-- 
Paul van der Vlis Linux systeembeheer, Groningen
http://www.vandervlis.nl