[Pkg-e-devel] [Debian] E17 on the FreeRunner

Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) raster at rasterman.com
Thu Feb 5 22:47:19 UTC 2009

On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 03:39:35 +0100 Luca Capello <luca at pca.it> said:

> Hi there!
> I cc:ed the pkg-e-devel mailing list since they maintains E17's
> packages.  Please keep at least me cc:ed, TIA.
> If you follow the pkg-fso-maint mailing list, you should probably
> already know that I have installed E17 on a 512MB microSD, thus here my
> feedbacks.
> E17 requires too much space (8.5MB) compared to Matchbox (m-w-m + m-kbd
> need 568kB), because of the e17 package itself (4.2MB) and the e17-data
> package (4.3MB).  Together with its dependencies, E17 requires 14.4MB:

e isn't going to be small. but it does pretty much include everything you need
to run stuff, manage it, configure it, enter text, etc. etc. so it's your
baseline gui. matchbox+matchbox-kbd only do a fraction of that.

you of course can separate out all the modules and only package up those you
want etc. there's a lot of modules.

> =====
> debian-gta02:~# apt-get install e17
> [...]
> The following NEW packages will be installed:
>   ca-certificates e17 e17-data libcurl3 libecore-con0 libecore-file0
>   libecore-ipc0 libedje-bin libefreet0 libembryo-bin libfam0 libidn11
>   libldap-2.4-2 libsasl2-2 libssh2-1 openssl
> [...]
> After this operation, 14.4MB of additional disk space will be used.
> [...]

libfam seems wrong. libidn11 too - it's not used directly by efl. libldap,
libsasl, libssh seem just spuriously wrong. libcurl and openssl are entirely
optional for efl. ca-certificates is probably a result of 1 or more of these
spurious deps.

> debian-gta02:~# apt-get install matchbox-window-manager \
>  openmoko-panel-plugin trayer
> [...]
> The following NEW packages will be installed:
>   libfakekey0 libmatchbox1 libnotify1 libstartup-notification0
>   libxsettings-client0 libxtst6 matchbox-keyboard
>   matchbox-window-manager openmoko-panel-plugin python-gtk2
>   python-notify python-numeric trayer
> [...]
> After this operation, 8262kB of additional disk space will be used.
> [...]
> debian-gta02:~#
> ======
> FYI, I have already started to think about a way to reduce E17 size and
> I will come back to it after FOSDEM.

1. use something up to date from svn helps
2. dont build every possible feature in :)

> Now, the list of bugs I reported to the Debian BTS: I decided to
> directly report them because scientifically speaking we have a positive
> control (something to test against), which is the FSO-MS5 image, to
> which Debian should resemble the most.
> - (pending) duplicated documentation
>     http://bugs.debian.org/513850
> - (pending) there are no dicts/keyboards
>     http://bugs.debian.org/513854
> - no icons on the desktop, thus no way to start an application
>     http://bugs.debian.org/514018
> - keyboards are not working
>     http://bugs.debian.org/514021

sounds to me like maybe ecore didnt build xtest support in as matchbox sucked
it in as a dep - e didn't.

> - there is no language choice (but this is the same on FSO-MS5), because
>   the default Debian installation does not install the locale package.
>   However, some locales have no icons associated to it (e.g. fr_CH),
>   thus they cannot be chosen from the wizard, but only in the
>   preferences panel
>     http://bugs.debian.org/514182

e only offers language choice in its wizard for languages e has translations
for. icons are only offered for these as a result :)

> - the top shelf gadgets are not clickable, but in netbook profile they
>   work as expected (on FSO they works as well)
>     http://bugs.debian.org/514185

works for me... default out of the box. as above - try something recent.

> - some preferences windows are too wide (the same on FSO)
>     http://bugs.debian.org/514189

known. unlikely to get all fixed any time soon - so you need to live with it
until all the dialogs get some squeezing - there's a LOT of them.

> - when changing keyboard model or dict, the window has scrollbars
>   (vertical left and horizontal bottom, not present in FSO)
>     http://bugs.debian.org/514191

again - up to date... :)

> Finally, some notes:
> - there is only one application menu, "Enlightenment (Applications)",
>   because the default Debian installation does not install the menu and
>   menu-xdg packages, which are required to generate the debian-menu.menu
>     http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-fso-maint/2009-February/000510.html
>     http://wiki.enlightenment.org/index.php/E17_and_Efreet#Debian.2FUbuntu

yup. thats how it should be :) or offer more than one if you please. :) that is
considered something the os should provide for wm's/desktops etc. etc.

> - the mouse cursor is shown by default, with Illume this should not be
>   the case (and FSO hides the cursor by default)

all the kdrive xservers build with a -hide-cursor option. the theme can be
changed to have a blank cursor - but this doesnt remove it for gtk and qt and
the 1001 apps out there that set cursors themselves. i suggest you look att eh
x solution of just removing the cursor.

> - the default profile, at least on the FreeRunner, should be Illume

you are free to package as many or few profiles as u like :)

> - there is no 'logout' button, but I guess this is because we do not
>   use the E17 Xsession file yet

if u press "X" in the shelf while looking at the home screen you get the syscon
panel - and there you won't see a logout - the illume profile anyway won't have
it - it will have suspend, power off and lock. no logout. if you want a
desktop-style wm with a logout - there is a standard profile :) you are free to
create your own config profiles of course... that's why they exist. there's
enough examples of them from upstream :)

> - a button to close the virtual keyboard without passing through the
>   Illume panel top would be nice

the problem is space. every control like this eats up a lot of space. as such
in theory applications should handle this via hints - the qwerty controls are
there as a backup when apps get it wrong. i suggest for gtk apps you install
the matchbox immodule from the mb kbd - then they can auto-request the kbd. for
qt - you'l need to see om's qt/qtopia changes. for other stuff... it will need
patching per toolkit or app (except some efl apps that already do this).

> Because of FOSDEM, I will take a break from the problems above, so do
> not worry if you will not receive follow-ups ;-)
> Thx, bye,
> Gismo / Luca

------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)    raster at rasterman.com

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