[Pkg-exim4-users] Exim.conf file

Greg Folkert greg at gregfolkert.net
Wed Apr 5 18:28:26 UTC 2006

On Wed, 2006-04-05 at 09:30 +0200, Jeremiah Foster wrote:
> Andreas,
> Just because someone disagrees with you or the debian maintainer does
> not mean they are a troll. I have discussed the debian exim package with
> a number of experienced UNIX admins and many agree that they debian exim
> package is broken.

Broken. Hmmm. NOT! You really don't understand scalability and vhosting
very well. I don't consider myself authoritative on anything, but being
a scripting fool (mainly shell, python and some Perl) I can tell you
seriously do not understand the importance of seperating things into
pieces so you can remove or add things quite easily.

Me, I have take the Debian Way and applied it to RedHat, SuSE, Gentoo,
OSF1, HPUX, Solaris and even SCO's crap.

I can manage 500 small, for each router that each use the same
transport. Imagine changing the ordering of the routers in a single file
configuration. Nightmare to do with scripting tools. But, I can renmae
the file from (say) 350gregfolkert.net to 200gregfolkert.net and change
the ordering in the config file. Vhosting using Exim is so much easier
using the Debian small config files, it isn't even funny.

> Yours is a typical debian user's attitude though; use
> pejorative expletives and name-calling rather than referring to the
> facts. A quick look at the volume of traffic on the exim mailing list
> versus this list will show any impartial observer that the vast majority
> of exim users do not use debian.

Well, I hate call attention to the fact that Most of the user questions
on E-U are of the "Duh, read spec.txt" for the answer. I know I am
subscribed as well. You cannot honestly say you have been dealing with
100s maybe 1000s of domains with Exim4 and a single config file.

But using 500-600 byte files for each domain in the routers... yes I
can, even my customers have zero problm configuring any number of
options using the small config files. I do syntax checking on commits
and reject if they are bad. With helpful messages.

Oh, how about that, there are more Debian users than you could ever
realize. How about the fact the the only people coming here are ones
that are trying to shoe horn badly setup add-on packages to Debian That
say something to the order of "Debian user == STUPID, use my config
editing it for you machine" for configuring Debian. If they even ONCE
really stopped to think about the modularity the Exim4 packages gove for
a Linux machine, I am sure others would begin to see the light.

They way you are akinning this whole thing is sort of like the major
camp wars of Windows, BSD and Linux. You know

        Windows RU13Z! Linux Drools!
        Why use that POS Linux, when Threads are all the Rage in
        Oh you found an Exploit in <package>, well we found that 3
        months ago during our standard code audits, like we always do in
        Dude, Fedora Core Rules! SuSE, is for girls.

I'd like to see you point out one of those Distros that have POLICY for
Packaging of Programs. Strict QA on that Policy as well. Plus a Software
Guide for Developing thse packages and also a Definition of what they do
and don't do. As well as it not being Driven by a buncha Marketing

> On Tue, 2006-04-04 at 19:33 +0200, Andreas Metzler wrote:
> > On 2006-04-03 Jeremiah Foster <jeremiah.foster at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Personally I think this is a good idea for two reasons:
> > 
> > > 	1. It is easier to install the exim package from exim directly 
> > > 	and not have to mess with the debian set up.
> > 
> > BS. Compare:
> > 
> > apt-get install exim4-daemon-heavy
> > $EDITOR /etc/exim4/exim4.conf
> > 
> You actually left out some steps: answering questions in debconf for
> example, running update-exim.conf, building /etc/aliases. These things
> are hard to do when you use the debian package beacause the debian
> package does not compare in quality or clarity to the exim package.

To the Philip Hazel packaged Source Tarball?

Yeah, that is easy. Sure thing. In fact, Why even use Debian at all, go
with FreeBSD Ports, or Emerge it on Gentoo. Even better, why not go with

If you don't have the clue absorbtion rate to understand the Debian Way,
and understand that there is more than one way to skin a cat, then stop
trolling here.
> > with
> > 
> > download tarball
> > setup EDITME, selecting the wanted features
> > install build-dependcies
> > compile
> > install
> > $EDITOR /etc/exim4/exim4.conf
> > 
> > cu and- am I feeding a troll? -reas
> When building from the upstream source one is forced to read the exim
> docs and therefor one learns much more about exim and how it works. The
> debian "magic" obscures important information.

Sure, one must read the spec.txt when compiling from source using PH's
package. And the Debian Magic as you have it being called is nothing
more than a good shell script written in a very well defined
environment, that condones the re-use of ideas that the environment was
designed for and built upon itself

Same could be said about using the Debian methods. They are Documented
as well as or even better than spec.txt. And the docs install right
along with the packages. And for that matter spec.txt is there as a part
of it.
greg, greg at gregfolkert.net

The technology that is
Stronger, better, faster:  Linux
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