Bug#170037: This bug should be fixed!

[Loïc Minier]

Martin Samuelsson <debianbts@cos.user.lysator.liu.se> - Sat, Nov 20, 2004:

> I would say that the existance of #278451 #278540 #279511 and #279928
> is proof enough for that this bug should be fixed.

 Oh please!  I just spent some time reading these old reports:
 - #278451 is closed with a good explanation you might have missed:
   firefox switched to a full gtk2 integration, and yes this might have
   impacted keybindings, but at least these are now coherent between
   gtk2 apps.  You *can* configure these keybinding globally, for all
   gtk2 apps, and firefox will work emacs-like -- as all gtk2 apps -- as
   soon as you configure your gtk2 with emacs-like keybindings.
     What do you propose?  That firefox keeps it's old "reinvent the
   wheel" keybindings and poor integration plus a configuration option
   permiting one to switch from the old code to gtk2 integration?  Well
   submit a good patch, I'm sure the Debian developper responsible for
   firefox will propose it upstream.  Meanwhile, I don't see anyone
   ready to do such efforts for you whining about gtk2 configuration.
 - #278540 is closed too, and the submitter agreed he should have
   configured gtk2 to use emacs-like keybindings.
 - #279511 is ... closed too!  Same story as #278540.
 - #279928 is closed as well, and is once again the same story as
   #278540 and #279511.

 Which leaves us with #170037, where you are commenting into, but which
 is truly another discussion.

 Since I'm talking to the audience of #170037, I'd like to say most of
 people complaining here are missing the point.  There is no "gtk2 bug"
 since gtk2 is not an alternative to gtk1.
   You're complaining because the software you were using (firefox, or
 lostirc for #170037) made an important switch from gtk1 to gtk2.  This
 is similar to changing the audio decoding backend or the video output
 method in video player, except gtk2 and gtk1 don't ship with the same
 defaults.

 You can't force apps or libs to be compatible with versions which have
 nothing in common, nor can't your force them to be compatible for years
 and years.  Still, in this particular case, there's a way for each user
 to revert to the old behavior, and it is *documented*!

> Users got confused and annoyed by this when gtk2 was released, it
> happened again when firefox started to obey wierd keybindings and at th=
e
> release of sarge other users will for sure be unhappily surprised.

 No gtk2 did not cause anything at all. gtk1 is still in sarge, and in
 sid, and there are still apps using gtk1.  Their behavior is unchanged.
   Only when these apps did made the move from gt1 to gtk2, by
 _modifying their code_, the keybindings might have changed.

 You could request each of these apps to add a note that they have
 switched to gtk2 and that this can cause some keybindings changes.  I
 don't think anything else can be reasonnably be integrated in Debian.
 Any way, this is not a gtk2 bug.

 Hence, I think #170037 is non-sense, and should be closed, for the
 following reason:
 no-one is forced into using gtk2 instead of gtk1, and gtk2 can still be
 configured to act similarly to gtk1.

 If you think there's a major risk with apps transitionning silently
 from something to gtk2 (be it from gtk1 or whatever), request a note to
 be printed on upgrade or submit a patch permitting both systems to live
 together.

   Regards,

-- 
Loïc Minier <lool@dooz.org>