Bug#484121: tasksel: let's sync on the GNOME task

[Joey Hess]

Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Package: tasksel
> Version: 2.74.2
> Severity: wishlist
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I think it is time to wonder what should go in the default GNOME
> installation for the lenny release.
> 
> Currently, the "gnome-desktop" task consists of the
> "gnome-desktop-environment" metapackage (official GNOME release) plus a
> number of extras. However we already provide the "gnome" metapackage
> which consists of g-d-e plus a number of extras to make a full-fledged
> desktop. 
> 
> I think that we should converge on the same set of packages, so that the
> "gnome-desktop" task could simply install "gnome". This would avoid a
> lot of unneeded synchronisation work, while the GNOME team knows what
> packages are deprecated and which ones are introduced.

There's a fundamental difference between the gnome package and the
gnome-desktop task. The former is the complere gnome desktop environment
with all extras, as shipped by gnome, while the latter attempts to be
the best gnome-based desktop that Debian can put together and ship on a
CD/DVD.

These two seem unlikely to be identical, as long as there exist packages
like openoffice and firefox, that are developed outside of gnome, and
that everyone expects to find on their desktop.

I'd like to reduce the divergence as much as possible, of course. And
perhaps I misunderstand what the gnome package is for..

> Here are the current differences.
> 
> Packages installed by the gnome package, not by tasksel:
>       * abiword: adding it would mean installing two word processors,
>         since openoffice is already part of the installation. However
>         abiword is much lighter and much more suitable for beginners

Beginners expect to be able to open all the microsoft documents they get
and have them work well, and have an uber-bloated word processor that
looks similar to the MS tools, which is why everyone uses OOo. 

Anyway, the gnome package does not pull in abiword AFAICS.

>       * dia: it’s not a very good application, but it doesn’t have any
>         suitable replacement. I think we should ship it by default, but
>         not that strongly.

Again, I cannot find this in the gnome package or any obvious dependency
chain from it.

>       * gnumeric: same problem as abiword, but the difference is that
>         gnumeric is superior to OOo calc in many ways. I feel it should
>         be the default for GNOME, even if it means not installing OOo
>         calc.

Nor this..

>       * inkscape: this one is a killer application. Let’s ship it by
>         default. Oh, and we don’t need OOo draw thanks to it :)

Nor this..

(I have been thinking about adding inkscape, as it's pretty kick-ass.)

>       * planner: not very well maintained upstream, but it is a useful
>         application without many good replacements. I don’t feel
>         strongly about it, but it is small.

Nor this..

>       * gdm-themes: nice to have for customizing one’s desktop, just
>         like gnome-themes-extras.

I'm not sure that "nice to have" is really worth bloating the default
install (and installation media) by 4 mb. We ship a pre-themed gdm.

(Dropping the 20 mb gnome-themes-extras would also be a sizable win to
consider...)

>       * gnome-games: was removed from g-d-e, but we definitely want it.

Agreed, added.

>       * gnome-games-extra-data: nice themes to have, especially the
>         vector card themes.

But at 7 mb more, maybe not nice enough.. 

The default card theme is "bonded", a vector theme anyway, isn't it?

>       * libpam-gnome-keyring: enhances GNOME keyring functionality a
>         lot, we should have it.

Sounds good, added.

>       * gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly: adds support for some video formats
>         that gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg does not understand. We should have
>         it.

This was removed via bug #388247 back when totem-xine was the default,
and didn't get put back when it changed again. Added.

>       * system-config-printer: this application supersedes
>         gnome-cups-manager and foomatic-gui.

Already done.

>       * tomboy: very nice app, but controversial since it brings the
>         full Mono stack, so we don’t make it part of
>         gnome-desktop-environment.

I doubt that the size of its dep chain (~50 mb) makes it worthwhile to
add it to our task.

>       * totem-plugins: totem will lack functionality without it.

totem-plugins is a dependency of totem, so it already installed by
default.

(g-d-e still depends on totem despite it being a "dummy package", and
totem still depends on totem-plugins while totem-gstreamer does not..
will this be cleaned up?)

>       * serpentine: we set it as the default application to burn audio
>         CDs.
[in gnome-desktop task]
>       * gnomebaker: its functionality is mostly covered by having both
>         nautilus-cd-burner and serpentine.

Ok, if this combo is best now, I'm happy to follow your lead and drop
gnomebaker and add serpentine.

> Packages installed by tasksel, not by the gnome package:
>       * gnome-cups-manager, foomatic-gui: superseded by
>         system-config-printer.

Already done.

>       * gparted: not sure it is that useful, but we could add it to
>         gnome.

I'm on the fence about this one myself. Gustavo promoted adding it.

>       * update-notifier: not very well maintained, but definitely
>         useful. Maybe as a recommend?

It's pretty crucial to have this well-maintained IMHO. Many users will
only find out about security fixes via this.

>       * gnome-app-install: already here through recommends, but we can
>         make it more explicit.

Rationalle for this one in #435701.

>       * gdebi: we should definitely add it to gnome.

Along similar lines, I've been considering adding aptlinex or something
similar to the task. The UI is not a really great fit though. And apturl
is not packaged..

>       * transmission-gtk: I don’t know that application, but it sounds
>         like a useful addition to gnome.

It's the best integrated bittorrent application I've seen for gnome so
far, and relatively popular.

>       * liferea: definitely a good addition to gnome.
>       * pidgin: we should add this one, or maybe rather telepathy, to
>         gnome.

My impression is that pidgin has the mind share at the moment. I've
never seen a clear explaination/example of telepaty's capabilities. Is
it ready?

>       * openoffice.org-gnome, openoffice.org-evolution: it sounds like
>         something that should remain as only installed by tasksel.
>       * iceweasel-gnome-support: should remain as only installed by
>         tasksel.

These are there to enhance the packages installed by the base desktop task.

>       * evolution-plugins: sounds like something we forgot to add on our
>         side.

Possibly. Gustavo recommended adding that to the task.

>       * tsclient: we now install vinagre which is part of the GNOME
>         release, which is nicer but lacks RDP support. I don’t know
>         what’s best for this one.

(You're the one who recommended putting tsclient in the task before.)

vinagre is being pulled in via g-d-e already..

I think we could live without RDP support. Or we could leave both
installed; tsclient's menu entry says "Terminal Services Client", which
is just what people looking to connect to a windows machine will look
for, and everyone else can use vinagre.

>       * network-manager-gnome: I think we should at least recommend this
>         one.

There's no right choice about this peice of software..

>       * bluez-gnome: same as NM.

If we had a gnome-laptop task, we'd put this there, rather than
gnome-desktop.

>       * xsane: probably something that should be added to gnome-office.

There's no better scanner program for gnome is there?

>       * arj, p7zip: we can probably add them (for the same reason they
>         are part of the task).

These are included because they're recommendations of file-roller,
commonly used for windows interop, and tasksel ignores recommends.
See #414408.

-- 
see shy jo
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