Bug#484121: tasksel: let's sync on the GNOME task

[Joey Hess]

Josselin Mouette wrote:
> The complete GNOME desktop environment as shipped by GNOME (modulo
> tomboy) is gnome-desktop-environment. In gnome we provide extras that
> are chosen by Debian to make it the best desktop experience we can.
> Which is obviously what you should also want with the gnome-desktop
> task.

Thanks for the correction.

I'd be open to using the package as the main/sole contents of the task
then, provided we can agree on its contents, and provided recommends
don't cause trouble. (Tasksel ignores recommends, but you might have
good reasons to only want to make certian packages recommends.)

> > Beginners expect to be able to open all the microsoft documents they get
> > and have them work well, and have an uber-bloated word processor that
> > looks similar to the MS tools, which is why everyone uses OOo. 
> 
> It does not prevent us from shipping a better integrated word processor,
> while setting OOo as the default handler for .doc files (currently it is
> not, but I can easily change that).

I prefer not to have multiple choices of programs in a task though,
unless there's a damn good reason for doing it. Both bloat and user
confusion..

> > Anyway, the gnome package does not pull in abiword AFAICS.
> 
> It does, through gnome-office.
> 
> Same goes for dia, gnumeric, inkscape, planner.

Ok, let me re-address those then:

>      * dia: it's not a very good application, but it doesn't have any
>        suitable replacement. I think we should ship it by default, but
>        not that strongly.

I think I'd rather use inkscape than struggle with dia again, even if I
specifically needed to do UML stuff. But I don't feel it's something
typical desktop users are going to want at all.

>      * gnumeric: same problem as abiword, but the difference is that
>        gnumeric is superior to OOo calc in many ways. I feel it should
>        be the default for GNOME, even if it means not installing OOo
>        calc.

I don't have experience with gnumeric to say if it's better, but
doesn't OOo calc have some advantages in being integrated with a word
processor?

>      * planner: not very well maintained upstream, but it is a useful
>         application without many good replacements. I don't feel
>         strongly about it, but it is small.

6 mb small.. Planner does not seem to be used by a lot of people.

> 
> > >       * gdm-themes: nice to have for customizing one’s desktop, just
> > >         like gnome-themes-extras.
> > 
> > I'm not sure that "nice to have" is really worth bloating the default
> > install (and installation media) by 4 mb. We ship a pre-themed gdm.
> > 
> > (Dropping the 20 mb gnome-themes-extras would also be a sizable win to
> > consider...)
> 
> Considering the size of the default installation, that’s definitely your
> call.

Do you think that a lot of users would miss it?

> > >       * gparted: not sure it is that useful, but we could add it to
> > >         gnome.
> > 
> > I'm on the fence about this one myself. Gustavo promoted adding it.
> 
> Actually, it sounds like something more useful for the installer itself
> than for normal desktop operation.

I think the idea was that some people will install using the default
partition sizes, and need to change that later, and it would be good to
have a user-friendly way for them to do so. 

Popcon says that 5000 out of 40000 installations actually use it, which
is higher than I would have expected. Especially since you'd think most
people would only use it once or twice.
 
> > >       * gdebi: we should definitely add it to gnome.
> > 
> > Along similar lines, I've been considering adding aptlinex or something
> > similar to the task. The UI is not a really great fit though. And apturl
> > is not packaged..
> 
> I’m not sure it is that useful. We already have nice integrated UIs, I’m
> not sure we need web crap just for the coolness of web 4.0.

Potential benefits include being able to go to a games team page with
screenshots of games, and click on them to install. (I'm also looking at
goplay of course..)

-- 
see shy jo
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