GNOME-PackageKit packaging

[Josselin Mouette]

Le dimanche 21 novembre 2010 à 22:58 +0100, Matthias Klumpp a écrit : 
> PlugIn installation (e.g. Anjuta), Mime-Installation, Firmware installs
> etc. 

You know as well as me that no one uses this stuff. For example Debian
and Ubuntu had MIME installation very early, and it seems clear now that
it brings almost zilch to the user experience. The rest is usually some
way between useless (Anjuta plugins? there is only one package providing
them) to horribly annoying (yay for bringing up a package manager every
time an unknown character shows up). 

> For distribution upgrades you can use advanced tools, specialized for
> the distribution's package manager or use the generic PackageKit.

And if both of them use a different backend, you obtain different
results. Sorry but reproducing the aptitude disaster on the desktop
doesn’t sound like a glorious plan.

> You forgot the QApt stuff, which _again_ creates a software installation
> daemon... At worst case there are APTd, PackageKitd and QAptd running at
> the same time with Synaptic and other tools.

Yes, this is exactly my point. How is working on GNOME-PackageKit
helping to improve that situation?

> Can you please point me to some points in the API which are yum/rpm
> specific?

They are not specific to a backend per se, but they abide to the lowest
common denominator.

> > We need to stop thinking “We want PackageKit” and start thinking “We
> > want working package management on the desktop”. On that topic, we have
> > a lot more to learn (and take) from Ubuntu than from Fedora.
> Ubuntu makes package management user-friendly. I'm in contact with the
> Software-Center developer about these topics. In my opinion the best way
> for everyone is to make PackageKit usable for Debian's purposes instead of
> re-inventing the wheel and create new tools, which are tied to Debian.

I’m seeing the problem the other way round. The best way, at least for
us, is to have the Debian/ex Conectiva/Ubuntu tools usable for Debian’s
purpose instead of re-inventing the wheel and create new tools, which
are limited by what yum can do.

> (I've always been a friend of joint forces between the distributions) As I
> said before, if you could name the missing stuff in PackageKit's API or
> point me to the parts which are "wrong" ore need to be changed, I can talk
> with Richard about the changes any maybe implement parts of them.

It’s not something you can fix by adding bits and pieces. The correct
way would be to use and improve existing high-level interfaces instead
of developing another one. PackageKit specifically doesn’t target
replacing software such as synaptic - that’s fine, but we need something
powerful enough to do the synaptic tasks anyway, and synaptic in its
current state (requiring to run the GUI as root) is not acceptable
either.

Anyway, if you want to package PackageKit for Debian, you don’t need
anyone’s approval. Just don’t count on me to work on integrating it with
GNOME unless you have a clear view of what the package management
experience should be. 

-- 
 .''`.      Josselin Mouette
: :' :
`. `'  “If you behave this way because you are blackmailed by someone,
  `-    […] I will see what I can do for you.”  -- Jörg Schilling
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