network-manager, gnome, Recommends vs Depends

[Michael Biebl]

Am 17.07.2012 14:56, schrieb Ian Jackson:
> block 645656 by 681834
> thanks
> 
> The argument about the dependency from gnome-core to network-manager
> has now reached the TC.  This has been extensive discussed, most
> recently on debian-devel.  The most recent response from Josselin is
> here:
>   http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2012/07/msg00210.html
> 
> It seems to me that:
> 
>  * n-m breaks the networking of enough people that this is a
>    significant problem which should be fixed.

This is pure FUD without further details. Do you have any bug numbers in
particular? I don't claim that there aren't any bugs in NM but if there
are issues, they should be fixed in NM.

>  * There is not currently another metapackage besides gnome-core that
>    would pull in enough of the gnome system.

You can use gnome-session and install the additional packages you want.

Also, as an alternative if you can't use network-manager for whatever
reasons,  you can install gnome-core and disable network-manager. This
is as simple as

"update-rc.d network-manager disable"


>  * There is no good reason not to use Recommends (or indeed Suggests)
>    in a metapackage.

Not true, Joss put it very well at
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=645656#65

Ian, you can of course dismiss all those reasons (as you did in the
past), but that doesn't mean that those reasons are not valid.
I have the impression that you are biased against NM regarding this
issue and in general.

>  * In particular, tests have shown that the remainder of gnome
>    functions as expected when network-manager is not installed; the
>    situation appears to be the similar to that which occurs if n-m is
>    installed but the system's active network connection is not one
>    made by n-m.

Those so called "tests" have been done by Adam Borowski, who is known to
hate NM, so he is not impartial on this topic.

And no, it doesn't work as expected. GNOME users expect to be able to
setup their network with a single click.
None of the alternatives has a comparable integration into GNOME as
network-manager. Not wicd, and definitely not ifupdown.

We want to provide a coherent environment where the differenct
compontents are integrated as best as possible.

As for the situation where nm is installed but doesn't manage the
network connection: This is actually extremely confusing to users as
various bug reports have shown.

> So I would propose that we:
> 

>  * Overrule the maintainer of gnome-core, requiring that the
>    dependency on network-manager be changed to Recommends;

If you force us to do that against our better judgement, I'm handing in
my resignment tomorrow.



Michael



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