[Pkg-postgresql-public] postgresql 8.2 packaging

[Markus Wanner]

Hello Gerfried,

thanks for taking time and answering.

Gerfried Fuchs wrote:
>  I don't really understand your question. When a package is in squeeze
> (as in the release of squeeze) it will stay in there for until squeeze
> becomes obsolete.

Okay, cool. That's perfect with me. So, just to avoid any
misunderstandings: you are saying, that squeeze should provide and
continuously maintain 8.3 as well as 8.5, right?

Let's consider the Debian release after squeeze. Am I right is assuming
that you want that to ship only 8.5 and 8.7 and not 8.3 (given similar
release timings)?

>  Yes, but that's not possible anymore because lenny is released.

I'm glad you agree here as well.

>  How would you sanely upgrade from your stable 8.3 package to the next
> stable 8.5 package if the next stable doesn't have 8.3 packages around
> so that you still can run it?

Hm.. so you are saying that the fact, that the Postgres 8.1 package for
etch worked on lenny is more of a coincidence, than really planned,
tested and ensured, right?

> The lenny 8.3 package will be obsoleted by
> the squeeze release and it is not promised that it will be possible to
> keep it installed and running. That's my point.

Okay, understood. I agree, that's unfortunate and needs to be addressed.

>  Doing too much things at the same time (dist-upgrading _and_ database
> transition) is a cause for more troubles than needed, IMO.

I absolutely agree to that.

With shipping only one single Postgres major version, Debian actually
enforced doing both upgrades at a time, which is what I dislike about
the current approach. But that's just my personal dislike, not a request
towards the Debian project.

>  It's also highly propable that etch is still in productive use by more
> people than lenny. Your point being? That people like to use old stuff?
> Noone denies that to them.

My point is that users should be free to upgrade only one of the two
without being forced into having to upgrade the other as well. Again,
that's just an opinion, not a request.

> Debian never claimed to support every
> single piece of software out there, and it doesn't aim for it.

Sure.

As a Debian user, I stated that I'm missing something. I've offered help
and actively created the packages I required. I'm now offering these
packages to the public.

(To me it seems you are still trying to tell me that I got the wrong
problem.)

>> As stated by Martin and yourself, Debian wants to encourage people to
>> upgrade between major releases.
> 
>  Yes.

I'd say, that most people rather don't upgrade Debian than having to
upgrade Postgres, then. Offering support for multiple major releases of
Postgres would only widen up Debian's use (not Postgres'). But again,
that's just my opinion, not a request.

>> It does so by not maintaining older major releases of Postgres, thus
>> not shipping security and other fixes
> 
>  Uhm, why should one ship security and other fixes for stuff that isn't
> part of the distribution?

I'm saying that multiple Postgres versions should be part of the Debian
distribution. And I'm offering to help with that.

>> which is crucial for productive use. That's what leads me to say that
>> Debian "prevents" users from doing it that way.
> 
>  So you claim that Postgres wouldn't ship security and other fixes,
> preventing users from doing it that way? Because if you word it like
> that you make it sound it's only Debian's job to do so, for completely
> everything that's available out there.

I'm not requesting anything from anybody (except myself). Please stop
that thinking.

>  Again, you depend on volunteer work. Again, if you really feel you are
> in the position to request that thing you should contract someone to do
> it and not tell others what they should do in their volunteered time.

All I did is expressing my opinion. Please note that I've even pointed
out that others disagree. I find it pretty hard to write even more
politically correct mails.

> From what I
> have read you depend on it for professional environment so it's up to
> you to either take what you get for free or pay someone to do things the
> way you feel is needed for your income.

As you certainly have noticed, I've already done what I need myself. And
I'm offering that to others, including the Debian project.

If the Debian project doesn't want my help or my packages, that's of
course a bit sad for me, but generally fine with me. However, please
allow me to continue to maintain my repository and point others who
might need it there.

Overall, I'm glad you are speaking for maintaining at least two major
Postgres releases per Debian release (that's at least how I understood
your words). In my opinion (and that's again just an opinion, not a
request) that's a step into the right direction. I'm happy to help with
that as well.

Regards

Markus Wanner