Bug#831355: pulseaudio: Use module-udev-detect instead of module-detect

Felipe Sateler fsateler at debian.org
Thu Jul 28 14:04:41 UTC 2016


On 28 July 2016 at 02:30, Josh Triplett <josh at joshtriplett.org> wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 09:49:19 -0400 Felipe Sateler <fsateler at debian.org> wrote:
>> On 21 July 2016 at 21:43, Sean Laguna <sean.laguna at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 10:08:52 -0400 Felipe Sateler <fsateler at debian.org>
>> > wrote:
>> >> On 15 July 2016 at 03:51, Francois Mescam <francois at mescam.org> wrote:
>> >> > Thanks after installing pulseaudio-module-udev the message disappear.
>> >> >
>> >> > I have not disbled installation of Recommends but I install them
>> >> > manually
>> >> > and I think I've miss to install this package.
>> >> >
>> >> > You can close the bug.
>> >>
>> >> OK, doing so.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >> Saludos,
>> >> Felipe Sateler
>> >
>> > I think a problem here is that Debian recently removed this module from the
>> > base pulseaudio package:
>> > http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-pulseaudio-devel/2016-April/006197.html.
>> > Like the OP, I had to manually install it to get my default behavior back.
>>
>> Did you configure apt to not install Recommends by default?
>
> I ran into this same problem on upgrade, and yes, I have apt configured
> to not install Recommends.  The default Recommends of core packages
> install far too much; over time, that has been fixed somewhat, and I do
> look forward to re-enabling it someday.  I've filed various bugs on
> packages with excessive Recommends, as have many other people, and I've
> seen several threads on debian-devel about what the default installation
> installs.

Recommends exist for a reason. Moving a Recommends to a Depends takes
freedom away from users. Why do people who disable installation of
Recommends insist that this freedom be removed (for other users)? From
where I stand, the burden of is on their side for ignoring the
distribution recommendations.

> In the meantime, though: why split module-udev-detect into a separate
> module at all?  The main pulseaudio package still depends on udev and
> libudev1, and several other components in the core package use it, so
> this doesn't reduce dependencies at all; it just introduces the
> possibility of breakage like this.

It only depends on libudev, not on the udev daemon.

The story is as follows:

1. The default pulseaudio script loads module-udev-detect if it is available.
2. If it fails to load the daemon start fails.
3. The module fails to load if the udev daemon cannot be contacted.
4. I want pulseaudio to be installable and usable inside containers
(contacting eg, remote sinks).
5. udev does not start inside containers.

Upstream maintains that 3 is correct behavior. So to support
containers without config changes by the user we need to either make
sure module-udev-detect can be unavailable, or ignore udev load
errors. The latter seems very undesirable, so that leaves us only
making it possible to not install module-udev-detect. This also has
the side benefit of not requiring a useless udev daemon inside the
container. I hope this makes clear why this was implemented.

> Would you consider either merging module-udev-detect back into
> pulseaudio, or making it a Depends?

I'm still thinking about it. To be honest, I don't particularly like
making inferior packages to accomodate a non-default setting that
should only be used with care (after all, Recommends is defined as
stuff that almost always should be installed together). On the other
hand, I don't want to deal with endless bug reports either. So I'm
still undecided...


-- 

Saludos,
Felipe Sateler



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