[Pkg-samba-maint] Bug#674853: Bug#674853: Bug#674853: winbind should depend on libpam-winbind and libnss-winbind for wheezy

[Adrian Bunk]

On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 11:10:00PM +0200, Luk Claes wrote:
> On 05/28/2012 07:48 PM, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 12:04:37PM +0200, Christian PERRIER wrote:
> >> severity 674853 important
> >> thanks
> >>
> >> Quoting Adrian Bunk (bunk at stusta.de):
> >>> Package: winbind
> >>> Version: 2:3.6.5-3
> >>> Severity: serious
> >>>
> >>> Common practice in Debian is that when functionality got split out
> >>> of one package, that package will depend in the next stable release
> >>> on the new packages to avoid breakages on upgrades.
> >>
> >> Which is why winbind *Recommends* libpam-winbind and libnss-winbind.
> >>
> >> As we already said ad libitum here....or there....we are not here to
> >> rescue people who shoot in one's own foot by not installing
> >> Recommends.
> > 
> > If "not installing Recommends" is considered "shoot in one's own foot",
> > doesn't that imply that Recommends should be converted to Depends?
> > 
> > Either not installing Recommends (which is a *global* setting in Debian) 
> > is considered a valid setup through all of Debian, or it is anyway 
> > considered broken. In the latter case there would be no reason against 
> > changing the Recommends to Depends...
> > 
> >> So, sorry but no.
> 
> On the contrary, if one chooses to not install Recommends one has to
> take the consequences of not having everything that is usually needed
> installed. How one does that is up to oneself and not to the
> distribution at large. So it's actually "not installing Recommends, but
> not taking necessay measures to keep things working neither" is
> considered "shoot in one's own foot".

"everything that is usually needed" != "everything that was installed
before the upgrade"

These are two quite distinct cases.

Look at it from a practical point of view:

When setting up a server, you configure all services one by one, 
ensuring for each that it works.

If anything you need on that server is only recommended or suggested you 
will install it manually.

A few years later, you are upgrading the server to the next Debian 
release. You expect that everything that worked before the upgrade 
will continue to work after the upgrade.

You might have time for each step when setting up something new, but 
when a running system that is being used by other people has breakages
caused by an upgrade that's usually causing much stress.


Now regarding the "Recommends are treated like Depends by default":

Either a system without all recommended packages installed is considered 
in a "shoot in one's own foot" state. Then Recommends should be 
completely abolished in Debian and replaced with Depends.

Or it is considered a valid and non-broken setup to not install 
recommended packages, and then that should also be supported as
good as possible by Debian - including no upgrade breakages.


> Cheers
> 
> Luk

cu
Adrian

-- 

       "Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
        of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
       "Only a promise," Lao Er said.
                                       Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed