Bug#825394: shutdown versus logout

[Martin Steigerwald]

I know Martin Pitt reverted the setting, but I think there is a deeper issue 
in this:

I think one major issue here is that systemd then doesn´t seem to handle 
shutdown different to log out, i.e. I and quite some other users I read from 
prefer processes to be kept running on logout, but when I shutdown or reboot 
the system I prefer it to first SIGTERM and then SIGKILL processes if any are 
left over. Instead systemd seems to wait on processes on shutdown case for at 
least one and a half minute, and that requires the KillUserProcess switch be 
on which then also leads to user processes being killed on logout which is the 
part that doesn´t make sense to me.

Just as it worked with SysVInit. Sometimes I wonder why its necessary to break 
stuff that has worked just fine for ages.

The most important question here is always "What do users want?". I know what 
I want: When I say shutdown I mean it – I don´t mean wait for processes longer 
than a few seconds. When I say reboot I mean it – I don´t mean wait for 
processes longer than a few seconds. When I say logout, I mean it as well – I 
don´t mean kill my screen session. Instead of just changing things for the 
sake of changing them, or only to the view of the world that is correct in 
systemd developers terms, I wonder how about thinking of a new way to do it 
and coordinate with all involved parties *before* matter-of-factly breaking 
existing setups in inventive ways.

So in systemd world either the logout or the shutdown is broken depending on 
the setting of the KillUserProcesses switch.

Well if its possible to some day have it working out of the box with scopes… 
but hopefully in a portable way that will work on FreeBSD and other operating 
systems as well…

I do think it would be good to extend the "don´t break userspace" mantra to 
systemd as well.

Thanks,
-- 
Martin