[Pkg-tcltk-devel] Tcl 8.6 as default in "jessie": XOTcl to NSF transition

[Sergei Golovan]

Hi Stefan!

On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 12:04 PM, Stefan Sobernig
<stefan.sobernig at wu.ac.at> wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
> First of all, thanks to Sergei for bringing the issue (bug #724816) at the
> table!
>
> Regarding bug #724816, we would like to initiate a transition from the XOTcl
> to its successor NSF:

Well, currently only dotlrn and openacs are the packages which depend on xotcl,
so, if they can be ported to the new NSF then the old xotcl may be even removed
at all (though if you're willing to maintain it the removal isn't necessary).

>
> http://next-scripting.org/
>
> NSF is a shared infrastructure for both XOTcl 2.* (which is the direct
> successor of XOTcl 1.6.*) and NX, which adds a completely revamped language
> design. Using NSF, both XOTcl 2.* and NX come fully scripted (i.e., each
> language comes as a purely scripted Tcl package). NSF (and therefore XOTcl 2
> and NX) require at least Tcl 8.5, but are also upward compatible and tested
> with Tcl 8.6.
>
> NSF has been in use for over a year now in several production systems: It
> drives http://openacs.org/ and one of the largest university eLearning sites
> in Europe: http://learn.wu.ac.at/

Nice.

>
> As Sergei pointed out correctly, the XOTcl 1.* line does not build anymore
> with Tcl 8.6; and we do not intend to establish and to further maintain this
> compatibility given that there is a replacement: NSF and XOTcl 2.

Then forget about my patch and replace tcl-dev and tk-dev by tcl8.5-dev and
tk8.5-dev respectively. May be you'll have to teach configure where to find
tclConfig.sh and tkConfig.sh (they are in /usr/lib/tcl8.5 and /usr/lib/tk8.5)
and Tcl includes (/usr/include/tcl8.5). And make sure that xotcl doesn't call
tclsh or wish, but uses tclsh8.5 and wish8.5 (we will drop providing tclsh
and wish symlinks by tcl8.5 and tk8.5 packages in near future).

>
> How can we best prepare and perform the transition? Is there a chance to
> meet the Nov 5th deadline, somehow?

What will happen on November, 5? I'll be glad to review and upload the new
packages, the longest delay I'd expect is a few weeks in the new packages
queue. You should also open an ITP bug.

>
> 1) I have started creating a new debian package "nsf" which will contain the
> binary and scripted components of NSF, NX, and XOTcl 2. I base this on the
> infrastructure already established for the xotcl package (debian/*).
>
> I will have completed this by tomorrow evening, most probably. Can I count
> on someone reviewing and promoting the package, then?

Yes, I'll do that.

>
> Have there been critical updates to the Tcl/Tk package maintainer guidelines
> which I should consider?

Not really, except for not using tclsh and wish without depending on tcl and tk.

>
> 2) I will prepare an update for the "xotcl" package, to align the
> dependencies:
>
> "xotcl" will depend on: tcl 8.4/8.5, tk 8.4/8.5

I'd drop 8.4 as a discontinued one.

> "nsf" will require: tcl 8.5+/ tk 8.5+

Fir it I'd build depend on tcl-dev and tk-dev and did additional check
using packages
from experimental.

>
> Note that "xotcl" and "nsf" (once installed) can coexist (e.g., under tcl
> 8.5 environment) since the Tcl package versions clearly discriminate between
> the two lines. Under 8.4 (if still relevant) and 8.6, respectively, they
> will be mutually exclusive because of the distinct runtime dependencies.
>
> Is there anything I am missing from my "transition picture"?

I really don't see a very much of transition (only if you want to
remove xotcl), so
there shouldn't be any issues.

Cheers!
-- 
Sergei Golovan