[Pkg-utopia-maintainers] Bug#477913: Bug#477913: Bug#477913: Bug#477913: tried it, of course

[Sjoerd Simons]

On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 09:06:22AM +0200, Harald Dunkel wrote:
> Michael Biebl wrote:
>>>>>
>>>> IMHO hibernate is the special case. In a network environment it is
>>>> pretty optimistic to expect that a suspended Unix machine could
>>
>> On a networked server, sure. But on a laptop (over 50% of newly sold  
>> computers are laptops nowadays), I expect suspend/hibernate to work.
>>
>
> I can't speak for ATI graphics cards, but for NVidia's GCs suspend
> doesn't work (I tried both "nv" and "nvidia"). Surely it _should_
> work, but looking at the market share of NVidia GCs I doubt that
> there are so many users of this feature right now.

Luckily there is a lot more in the world then nvidia. I avoid nvidia machine
like the plague and so do a lot of smarter users. Suspending and Hibernating on
linux laptops is actually used quite a lot, basically everyone that is able to
use it..

> My suggestion would be to try out suspend & resume in a network
> environment. The problem is that all your networked applications
> don't expect that your local IP address might change, for example.
> This affects ssh, $DISPLAY, etc. And if you try to suspend your laptop
> at work, switch it on again at home and hope that everything is working
> fine via your firewalled VPN connection to the office, then this is
> highly optimistic.

Why do you assume we don't?

> I see that hal is an important part for freedesktop.org. And an
> important goal is to give current Windows users an alternative
> option to switch to. But I would suggest to consider that a Unix
> user (somebody who is using Unix for almost 20 years) might have
> different expectations from his desktop system than a Windows user.
> My top priority is "networked applications", for example.

And the same for most people. A computer without a connection network is mostly
useless for me, luckily i can rely on my laptop to reconnect automagically to
whatever wireless network in the neighbourhood that it knows.

I think your looking at this from an old unix view of the world, where the
world around you was mostly static. These days the world is very dynamic
though, with newfangled techniques like USB hardware comes and goes at any
time :) :p..

Suspending is very much a part of the current dynamic world and users do expect
it to work. Network-wise, most of my apps just reconnect nicely after
suspending. One can't expect ssh to reliably work after suspend, but then
again, it won't work reliably if you switch networks in general :)

But while this is a nice discussion, it has nothing to do with your actual
bug :)

>>> We could potentially make it a Recommend instead of a Depend. Most
>>> package
>>> management tools should handle that correctly by now.
>>
>> If we consider that, then earliest post-lenny, so we can rely on a apt  
>> version, which installs recommends by default. We also should first 
>> make sure, that d-i adds pm-utils to the laptop-task.
>> Unless that has happened, we shouldn't change the dependency.

pm-utils definately should go into the laptop task indeed.. Doesn't the
aptitude in etch already install recommends by default ? Aptitude is already
the suggested way to upgrade since Etch.

>> Honestly, I also found the term "dependency hell", mildly exagerated :-O
>>
>
> Don't take this subject line too serious. I just couldn't resist to use
> this obvious wordplay. I didn't mean to offend anybody. My apologies.

Luckily we aren't easily offended :)

  Sjoerd
-- 
At the foot of the mountain, thunder:
The image of Providing Nourishment.
Thus the superior man is careful of his words
And temperate in eating and drinking.