[Pkg-zope-developers] plone/plone-site, and doing the obvious

Jürgen A. Erhard jae+debian at jerhard.org
Fri Apr 7 15:36:54 UTC 2006

On Wed, Apr 05, 2006 at 05:55:49PM +0200, Fabio Tranchitella wrote:
> Il giorno mer, 05/04/2006 alle 17.04 +0200, Jürgen A. Erhard ha scritto:
> > [Sorry for the duplicate, Fabio, but I just hit R, so... the list
> > needs a copy (like a hole in the head, I'm sure ;) ]
> No problem (by the way, I belive that "Slaves of Zope" is not the right
> name of the list).

I'm aware of that... ;)

> > [suggestion to adding a short pointer to plone-site to plone long desc]
> Ok, I'll do so.


> > BTW, why does plone-site Suggest plone?  Wouldn't the other way around
> > make more sense?  Combined with a "if you want a ready-to-work-with
> > Plone instance, install plone-site" comment in the long description...
> plone depends on zope-cmfplone and recommends some optional zope
> products which you can use or not. For this reason, plone-site depends
> on zope-cmfplone and suggests plone which in turn depends on additional
> products (eg. multilingual support using zope-linguaplone +
> zope-plonelanguagetool, external-editor and so on).

Ah, okay.  I tend to think the plone->plone-site pointer above will
achieve enough already (*if* an admin reads the long description,

> > Oh, and please don't just point them to plone-site... do that in the
> > long description, and point them to that and to "how to get Zope
> > actually running" in plone's README.Debian.  So, they can choose
> > themselves: do the manual Zope setup, or do the easy-peasy apt-get
> > install plone-site.  ;)
> What about a patch? My english is far from being perfect, maybe you
> could help me finding the good sentences for writing down your idea.

If all goes well, I'll try to get to this next Tuesday (family matters
potentially too depressing to mention details... though recent news
(the "next Tuesday" bit) are very good).

> > You mention dzhandle in the long description of at least
> > zope2.8-sandbox, so why not mention it in the main zope2.8 long desc
> > too?
> I think that long description is not the right place for this kind of
> documentation, but README.Debian of zope-common is a good place and it
> already contains these things.

Agree.  I was actually a bit surprized to read about dzhandle in
zope2.8-sandbox' long description.  Time to remove it from there too?
I ha^h^hstrongly dislike inconsistencies.

> I'll add a symbolic link from /usr/share/doc/zopeX/README.Debian
> to /usr/share/doc/zope-common/README.Debian.

Good, good.

> > (Oh, and add a zsh completion script for dzhandle (and one for bash for
> > good measure), and I'd actually like dzhandle :P )
> The bash one will be shipped with the next upload, for the zsh I'm
> waiting for your patch. :)

Argh, don't make me shave my head by pulling (my hair out).  I love
zsh (apparently ;))  but I hate having to deal with writing completion
scripts. :P

Time to again look for that elusive "Writing ZSH completions scripts
HOWTO" (that's written for and old codger like me ;)  Or take next
Tuesday (here I go again ;)) and finally try to grok them.  As an avid 
Pythoneer, I'm not looking forward to it. :P

> > When I do that search, I get 33 lines.  The plone lines are 4 and 5
> > (or 5 and 6, two different systems).  In other words, hidden in a sea
> > of other stuff.  I give you that aptitude does better here...
> Sorry, but I can't change the order of those lines.

I didn't mean for you to change that, just that search not making the
choice of plone-site as obvious as you made it look like.

> > But since neither plone nor zope says what a "zope instance" means (I
> > found the "assuming too much" spot! ;) ).  For a Zope veteran, this is
> > obvious.  But don't we want to get non-Zopistas on board? Especially
> > given the ease of use of Plone (compared to Zope's <elided> ;) )?
> > 
> > I'm not saying Zope *must* create a default instance (Not anymore, I
> > deleted that paragraph which was right here ;) ).  What I mean to say
> > is that things need to be more obvious, more "in the user's face" if
> > you will.
> zope-common's README.Debian already says this, I'll symlink it to the
> zope(2.[89]|3) doc dir.

As said above, I'll take a stab at better (IMO)

Bye, J

                            Jürgen A. Erhard
                     My WebHome: http://jerhard.org
             1. Man gewöhnt sich an allem - sogar am Dativ.
                 2. Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod.
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