[Freedombox-discuss] Dehierarchicalization (e.g. avoiding DNS) is imperative?

[paxcoder]

On 10/07/2010 01:08 PM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 07, 2010 at 12:42:11PM +0200, paxcoder wrote:
>> On 10/07/2010 11:17 AM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
>>> If you mean to say that we have decided to not use DNS then I disagree.
>>
>> Dehierarchicalization being a goal is a fact, there's nothing to 
>> decide there: We can only kick it out if we decide we (well, you 
>> people) won't respect it. I hate what is sometimes done to Debian's 
>> community's agreement, and I'd hate to see us make the same 
>> compromises. Having an option is fine, but settling for lesser 
>> solutions is not what FB is about.
>
> Where and when did above become a "fact"?
>

Look,you could've removed it from the wiki. You didn't, and if you did, 
it would've surely be put back. It's agreed upon, since it's there for 
months now. When will you stop playing the "we don't have any 
rules/goals" game? If we have no goals, we have no future. So these are 
the only things we can call goals.
Heck, have your proprietary cloud client in FB for all I care, but let's 
see how many people remain. It's idiotica that we have to fight about 
such basic things.

>
>> It really isn't, and if you can't see that, I can't help you see that 
>> any more than I already did.
>
> Where and when did you even try help me understand?

I'm trying to explain to you (for a long time now) that decentralization 
is one of the project's foundations, and was one of its foundations from 
the get go. It is *not* just a personal server. It is a _Freedom_Box. It 
means, among other things, independence. That's what it's for.

>> I hope we won't wait that long, there are people who seem to know 
>> things about the subject, perhaps there's someone working on this as 
>> we speak?
>
> [You ask what I mean in your own special way, I assume it wasn't 
> rhetorical]

I mean working on locating peers in a decentralized manner, of course.

> Do you expect e.g. Diaspora to be usable by the masses in a week?

I wouldn't know. I don't have Facebook, so it's not that important to 
me, to be frank. I'd settle for GNUsocial - not that I see social 
networking as the most important feature.

>
>>> I certainly am interested in relaxing dependency on all things 
>>> central, including DNS.
>>
>> Good, what are we fighting about then? I wanted us to agree about our 
>> goal: Choosing distributed services *over* centralized ones is an 
>> imperative - wherever possible.
>
> I guess we are fighting over whether FreedomBox is the house to live 
> in when we reach the promised land, or the wessel to get there.

Oh no, if anything, we're fighting wheter it's a plug PC custom Debian 
install with server and Diaspora on top of it, or a vessel to get to the 
promised land of private, distributed networking.

>
>> I'll continue giving you a hard time,
>
> Excellent. You are not doing so yet, however: A hard time is what you 
> give me when you support your claims with something more substantial - 
> like references to emails where things was discussed/decided or 
> perhaps a timestamp during the recording of one of Ebens talks when he 
> declares what you claim he declares.

The whole point of the talks is freedom from third party cloud services 
(and other communication tools), and building distributed alternatives 
that provide security and privacy. Funny how you missed that. No, I have 
no intention of wasting my time going through a video just to say: 
"Look, Eben DID say that at xx:xx!". Also, wiki is very real. You can 
find it via Google if you don't believe me.

> Please do try harder! ;-)

If you insist, we can always vote on alitoh for/against 
dehierarchicalization & such. I've already told you that. Tell me, is it 
necessary?

> Kind regards,
>
> - Jonas

Your kindness overwhelms me,
--Luka Marčetić