[Freedombox-discuss] FreedomBox 22.26 released

Esteban Ordóñez quiliro at riseup.net
Thu Dec 8 23:12:22 GMT 2022

El 2022-12-06 10:10, Jonas Smedegaard escribió:
> Quoting Esteban Ordóñez (2022-12-06 15:02:46)
>> Wow!  Even though I do not like that everything must work with
>> Javascript in Freedombox, I think that the work being done is prolific.
>> I wish there would be a way for working with Freedombox as a server
>> without necesarily using Javascript.
>> Another issue I have is that it is part of a nonfree operating system.
>> In the past, Debian was nonfree according to the FSF guidelines.  Now it
>> is nonfree according to Debian's guidelines also.
> Hi Esteban.

Hi Jonas.  :-)

> This is your second post complaining about a core Debian issue on this
> list.  Please stop: You cannot revert the the democratic Debian decision
> by posting to this mailinglist about it.

I do not understand what is wrong about letting people have more
information about it.  People in this list could ask Debian authorities
to revert the inclusion of nonfree firmware.

The word democracy is so abused that it has lost its meaning.  Democracy
is the rule of the people.  Nevertheless, most people are not even
developers, most developers are not Debian developers and most Debian
developers are not the ones who make the decisions.  Even if it was a
majority who ruled, that is not democracy because most majorities are
led by minorities.  Democracy is the opposite of the rule of the people

> You are welcome to try make a fork of Freedombox, e.g. based on Devuan
> which I imagine might share your opinion.  And then when you have
> something substantial working (but not before, please) then I suggest
> you make this list aware of your success, and I imagine that this
> project will be more than happy to promote your fork as an alternative
> for those sharing your views on the matter.

I don't think Devuan excludes nonfree firmware.  Anyways, before
promoting something, we must know what is the best to construct.  Not
build first and then decide to promote that.

> For the record, I am a Debian developer and I voted against what became
> decided about blobs in Debian main, but I prioritize the continuity of
> Debian higher than the high principles that I had hoped was shared among
> a majority of Debian but evidently wasn't.

Are you saying that it is better for you to accept that Debian be a tool
of subjugation by way of its nonfree firmwares than to opose such policy
for the sake of Debian?  I don't understand that policy, if you voted
the against the inclusion of nonfree software.  Please clarify what you
are saying about "Debian higher" and "high principles".  I do not see
anything high about accepting to collaborate in subjugating the users
just to make them fans of Debian, even if it implies that more users
will knew about free software.  It conveys the message that it is OK to
give up freedom for getting less important features.

> Also, I am working on another fork of FreedomBox, for different reasons,
> but have so far (some years not) chosen not to bother this list much (if
> at all, till now - not quite sure) about pet project of mine...

Please tell us about it.  I think that it might have good ideas to
implement on Freedombox or other projects.

> Kind regards, and good luck if you choose to make a fork of Freedombox,

I am not sure about the replacement.  There are many things to consider:
non-mandatory Javascript, removal of systemD, removal of nonfree
firmware and other issues.  If there is no free base to work with, it is
equally good to use Gentoo, Archlinux, OpenBSD, Slackware or Debian. 
For me, freedom is the main feature.  OpenBSD seems better regarding
other functionality.  Perhaps the work would be less to remove nonfree
bits and then we could obtain a more secure system also.  I am not sure
about how to proceed, yet.

I am sorry to hijack this thread for these issues.  Sadly, I do not know
of another place to discuss them with such intelligent people. 
Nevertheless, I do think that discussing other projects of the same type
and even disagreeing with this project, feeds and generates a rich
knowledge network.  Thus, it is good for Freedombox.  It is never
fruitful to stop people from expressing their feelings.  The best way to
make something stop is to use our time for stuff that we want to
promote, not to ask others to stop expressing their thoughts and
feelings about stuff that we do not want to be exposed.

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