Bug#275949: gnome: The "wontfix" logic is alibistic and inconsistent

[Loïc Minier]

tags 275949 - wontfix
retitle 275949 [Apt with Recommends] Use Recommends instead of Depends
stop

        Hi,

On Thu, Sep 28, 2006, Mgr. Peter Tuharsky wrote:
> 1, I don't have any problem to claim, that at least 90% of users do use 
> mail client just for the purposes of mail client. For them, Thunderbird 
> IS an equivalent for Evolution. Moreover, Evolution is just too heavy 
> and complicated tool for them.

 Sure.  Please do consider the number of packages which are integrated
 with the evolution address book for example:
 opensync-plugin-evolution nautilus-sendto libmultisync-plugin-evolution
 gnomemeeting gnome-control-center glabels
 evolution-plugins-experimental evolution-plugins evolution-jescs
 evolution-exchange evolution ekiga deskbar-applet contacts
 contact-lookup-applet

 In particular, gnomemeeting | ekiga, gnome-control-center,
 deskbar-applet, are part of the default GNOME install and the desktop
 task.

 If we let people install Thunderbird instead of Evolution, they might
 not notice the difference for mail, but they would notice the
 difference in terms of integration in the desktop.

> 2, By exactly Your logic, Epiphany couldn't be even compared with 
> Firefox. It contains some 5% of Firefox functionality, not taking into 
> account the Firefox's add-on mechanism.

 This is not about the amount of bare functionalities.  BTW, get your
 facts straight: Epiphany has an add-on mechanism as well.  This is
 about integration.  Firefox with GNOME support comes closer to
 Epiphany's integration though.  Thunderbird is making progress.

 Beside, if you didn't notice, the GNOME desktop does not aim at having
 the most features, or more features than any other, quite the contrary:
 it tries to be simple to use.  Does throwing an application with 2000%
 more functionality ease the use of the system?
   The naked aspect of Epiphany is on purpose, not because the
 programmers didn't have time to write the features.

> 3, In our enterprise, we want desktop to be as much consistent as 
> possible. We need the same applications to be available both on Windows 
> and Linux desktop. Therefore we do use Moziila Firefox and Mozilla 
> Thunderbird; Nor epiphany of Evolution could do this.

 That's nice for your enterprise.  GNOME does not aim at preferring
 applications which are available under Windows.  The logic to select
 apps of the GNOME desktop is different from the logic you followed
 for your enterprise.  The GNOME meta-pacakges are consistent with the
 logic of the GNOME project.

> 5, <rumors> Epiphany imposes web compatibility problems even in cases 
> where Firefox dosen't have any problem. </rumors>

 Given that Ubuntu builds Epiphany against firefox-dev, I doubt your
 claims, but I can not deny that some sites may work under Firefox and
 not under Epiphany... or vice-versa.

> 6, Epiphany offers zero extension potential compared with Firefox. Not 
> that I personally need Flash, however when needed, I want to have an 
> option. Firefox is supported by these means.

 And I believe Epiphany (or Galeon) offer Flash support as well -- from
 what I read, I didn't try it myself.  Keep in mind that Epiphany is
 built atop of mozilla.org sources (in Debian, xulrunner, in Ubuntu
 firefox, and it's possible to build it against seamonkey or the old
 mozilla as well).  Actually, all binary plugins that work with Firefox
 (such as the JVM, mozplugger, mozilla-bonobo, mozilla-mplayer,
 mozilla-helix-player, mozilla-plugin-vlc, gnash, totem-mozilla etc.)
 should work with Epiphany (or Galeon).

> Summary: You would like to get rid of Firefox. I am annoyed by ugly and 
> uncapable Epiphany and would like to get rid of it too. There are also 
> reasons why someone wants to use TB or Evolution.
> Let them both in and let the people make the choice.

 Please try searching for alternatives you have instead of saying crap
 about Epiphany or Evolution, this is not going to open the discussion.

 Here are some alternatives (some of which I already mentionned in this
 report):
 - install both Evolution and Thunderbird (or both of Firefox and
   Epiphany)
 - don't use the meta-packages but select the packages you want manually
 - use equivs (apt-cache show equivs)
 - fork the meta-gnome2 package for your site and customize it

 We will address the problem (hence - wontfix), but only when Apt
 enforces Recommends.  When it does, we should switch to using
 Recommends, and you will be able to override any of the meta-gnome2
 dependencies.

 This won't happen before the next release though.

   Bye,
-- 
Loïc Minier <lool at dooz.org>