Bug#342341: eclipse: too many unneeded dependencies

[Andrew Vaughan]

Hi
I'm a debian user, not a debian developer, but I feel the need to chime in 
here.

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 09:36, Erwan David wrote:
>
> So you want to oblige people to use the pile of crap that gnome is. MY
> freedom is also to NOT use software I think is ill designed and is a
> danger.
>
So don't use whatever you don't want.  

If you feel this strongly, and can't convince the maintainers to relax the 
dependencies, use equivs to create a fake package that provides 
gnome-mime-data, mozilla-browser etc.

or download the debian source package, make whatever changes you need, and 
rebuild.  

or download the the debian packages and bypass dependencies by installing with 
dpkg -i --force-depends.  (Be warned that package managers will try to fix 
the broken dependencies.  Whilst fine for a quick and dirty short term trial, 
equivs is a better longterm solution.  Using either method to mess with vital 
packages will cause breakage.

or download eclipse from upstream and install to ~/bin or /usr/local .

I'm currently running eclipse (downloaded from upstream, and unpacked into 
~/bin) on ubuntu breezy.  When I tried the pre-release ubuntu packages, I had 
issues installing eclipse-plugins, and reverted using the upstream binaries.  
This works fine and is easy to update.  Indeed, unless you are familiar with 
tricks like equivs and dpkg -i --force-depends, I'd recommend running stable 
rather than testing/unstable, and installing eclipse (from upstream) either 
to ~/bin or /usr/local.  

> You deny me this right. And you're a liar, I can download upstream eclipse 
> without using mozilla (you oblige people to install obsolete sqoftware by 
> the way..) nor gnome.
>
Please moderate your language.  Getting the dependencies eased requires 
convincing the package maintainers that eclipse and swt apps work fine 
without the gnome dependencies.  That requires a constructive dialog.

This is free software.  
You're not obliged to do anything.  You can do whatever you like.  You're free 
to ignore this email.  You also free to try some of the suggestions I've 
listed above.   

No-one has denied you any rights.  They have just tried to make sure that 
people who install the debian eclipse package, get a fully functional 
eclipse, without having to manually chase dependencies.  (Debian policy 
requires this.  It is a large part of what makes debian such a pleasure to 
use.)

> Imposing gnome for the mime stuff is either a lie or the proof of blatant
> incompetency. Mime is handled through the mailcap and mime.types
> definitions and the debian package to handle them is mime-support.
>
I'm sure upstream will be happy to be called liars or incompetents.

Much of the dependency 'bloat' comes from libswt3.1-gtk-java (the java side of 
SWT), which depends on mozilla _or_ mozilla-firefox, and libswt3.1-gtk-jni 
(the native side of the toolkit).

libswt3.1-gtk-jni depends on (partial list)

libcairo2 - The Cairo 2D vector graphics library
libgnome2-0 - The GNOME 2 library - runtime files
libgnomeui-0 - The GNOME 2 libraries (User Interface) - runtime files
libgnomevfs2-0 - The GNOME virtual file-system library (runtime files)
libgtk2.0-0 - The GTK+ graphical user interface library

The gnome libs depend on ... (surprise) more gnome libs.

Note that this is an SWT upstream design issue.  SWT upstream choose to use 
the gtk library for native widgets.  They also choose to use gnome libraries 
for some functionality.  The eclipse file->open dialog is the same widget 
used by native gnome programs.  This includes seemless access to cd-roms that 
gnome has automounted.  As mentioned elsewhere, SWT uses mozilla or firefox 
for an embedded browser widget.  

> PS: I was evaluating debian for the desktops at my work. I must now say
> that I cannot suggest it for the developers, we'll stick with other
> dsitributions which let people free to choose not to use some software.

One of the strengths of debian is it package management.  99 times out of 100 
installed package just work, without having to install extra packages to 
satisfy dependencies, or to allow normal functionality.  The other 1% of the 
time, it is a RC bug.  If the package maintainers drop needed dependencies, 
they'll just end up having to add them.


from your initial bug report.
> Which means 195 MB on disk...
> 
Eclipse is big.  The upstream download is 99.3 MB.  My 'upstream 
install' (including cdt + subclipse) is 155 MB.  This includes private 
versions of some of the libswt-gtk and libswt-gnome-gtk which are listed 
above.

> eclipse does not need gnome, so there is a dependency problem on this
> side. Same thing with mozilla-browser.
> 
> In any case this makes the package uninstallable here (no gnome).

It not really pulling in gnome (desktop), just some of the gtk/gnome libs.  
Other linux desktop distributions may simply include these some these libs 
(perhaps built without optional dependencies) as part of a standard install.  
Try searching for libgtk on your old system.

Hope this helps
Andrew V.

PS. If you still want to persue this, I'd suggest downloading and manually 
installing the eclipse .debs and various dependencies, until you find a 
minimum set that gives a fully functional eclipse.