[Pkg-javascript-devel] Help: nodejs 16 need node-acorn source to break bootstrapping loop

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting Pirate Praveen (2021-12-03 07:17:12)
> 
> 
> 2021, ഡിസംബർ 3 8:38:53 AM IST, "Jérémy Lal" <kapouer at melix.org>ൽ എഴുതി
> >Le ven. 3 déc. 2021 à 04:05, Pirate Praveen <praveen at onenetbeyond.org> a
> >écrit :
> >
> >> 2021, ഡിസംബർ 2 7:22:02 AM IST, "Jérémy Lal" <kapouer at melix.org>ൽ 
> >> എഴുതി
> >> >Le jeu. 2 déc. 2021 à 02:02, Pirate Praveen 
> >> ><praveen at onenetbeyond.org> a écrit :
> >> >> 2021, ഡിസംബർ 1 9:52:45 PM IST, "Jérémy Lal" <kapouer at melix.org>ൽ 
> >> >> എഴുതി
> >> >> >Le mer. 1 déc. 2021 à 16:41, Pirate Praveen 
> >> >> ><praveen at onenetbeyond.org> écrit :
> >> >> >> 2021, ഡിസംബർ 1 5:18:25 PM IST, "Jérémy Lal" 
> >> >> >> <kapouer at melix.org>ൽ എഴുതി
> >> >> >> >To work around the bootstrapping issue that is posed by the 
> >> >> >> >huge loop of build-dependencies: nodejs -> node-acorn -> 
> >> >> >> >rollup -> zillion things -> nodejs, it is possible to make a 
> >> >> >> >stage 1 nodejs build that loads node-acorn *source* files, 
> >> >> >> >instead of the compiled ones.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> If nodejs 16 can handle acorn source files (ES6) directly, 
> >> >> >> can we just skip the build of acorn ? So we can drop nodejs 
> >> >> >> build dependency.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >yes, it can be skipped, for stage 1 build.
> >> >> >But the configuration options used for that build are not 
> >> >> >supported by upstream for anything else than development, and 
> >> >> >it has a non-negligible impact on nodejs initial load time.
> >> >> >So as soon as node-acorn can be built (by rollup), normal 
> >> >> >nodejs build must be done.
> >> >>
> >> >> I'm suggesting we ship node-acorn as ES6 source only (remove 
> >> >> build steps from current node-acorn itself) if our nodejs can 
> >> >> handle it. Rollup might be needed only for compatibility with 
> >> >> older nodejs versions which we don't need to support.
> >> >
> >> >Unfortunately, it's not that simple.
> >> >Short version: internal acorn *need* to be in commonjs format.
> >>
> >> OK, thanks for the explanation. We can, may be, file a wishlist 
> >> issue to support ES modules for internal acorn as well.
> >>
> >
> >If upstream node switches to ES for internal modules, they'll do it 
> >for all of them i think. But it would not simplify anything, so i 
> >doubt they wil.
> 
> Why would it not simplify? If nodejs can handle ES6 directly, then we 
> don't need to build acorn (we can use the esm source directly). So if 
> acorn don't build depend or depend on nodejs, we break the circular 
> build dependency.

I guess Jérémy means that it would not simplify anything for _upstream_, 
if (as usual in the NodeJS ecosystem) what they depend on is not sources 
but products.

If that's the point then I think it might still be worth a try to make 
the suggestion, pointing out benefits for downstrem users like Debian 
wanting to simplify bootstrappability - even if that's not generally a 
priority for NodeJS developers upstream.


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

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