[Pkg-owncloud-maintainers] I am using distro packages and I tell you why

Tue Jan 5 14:24:49 UTC 2016

On Tuesday 05 January 2016 11:25:42 Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> Am Dienstag, 5. Januar 2016, 09:23:22 CET schrieb Jos Poortvliet:
> > > So like it or not, but I as a Owncloud user still get to decide whether I
> > > use  your recommendation, or just dismiss it. At least the Debian
> > > packagers do not seem to be that vocal on their blogs about upstream
> > > decisions they dislike.
> > I didn't mean to change your mind - I hoped to warn ownCloud users in
> > general and perhaps kick off some thinking at distro's to avoid them
> > becoming, well, the thing to run a container on.
> > 
> > Of course, you have to consider that, like me, a bad scenario. And a likely
> > one. Perhaps you don't care, or don't think it will happen. In that case,
> > ignore me.
> 
> Okay, for now, I think it is not of much use to discuss the details here.
> 
> I do think there we have a fundamental common ground in viewpoint that the 
> current situation can be improved upon,

Do note that we would want to improve our packaging, too - right now that is very hard for various reasons. Some internally, some external.

And yes, the ideal would probably be if we could just rely on the distributions. But then, users should get an up to date ownCloud when they try to install it, not a stale one. And have a choice of release channels, ideally, see http://owncloud.org/release-channels

It certainly isn't for lack of wanting, the guys working on this would prefer it. Heck, they dislike our current packages and would prefer to be closer to what you guys build. Packaging for many distro's is a huge job, I hope you understand that.

It's one of the reasons why I asked if Debian and other distro's could work as much as possible to decrease the many differences between them and make collaboration with outsiders easier. Especially those differences which are more arbitrary (or depending on taste) than anything should go the way of the dodo. I've got an equally abrasive dude living quite close to my place who has actually done a lot to make that happen (I won't mention his unholy name here, his project already came up).

For us, it's also possible we decide it is easier to just let users run the tarball rather than packages. Improve the updater app, do what Wordpress does in that regard. Or, heck, offer a container. Our VM is doing well already...

> lots, yet there is also a fundamental 
> difference:
> 
> I do not believe in thinks happening and all I can do is to react to it. I do 
> believe in creating things they way I like it. Or if not creating myself, 
> choosing the creation of others I like to use and support.

Yeah, if you contribute for the scratch-your-itch reason, that's great. If you try to change the world, adjusting and taking [1] into account is needed.

> Docker, containers, or the next hype: How often did IT industry change between 
> a kind of central computing in main frames or recently clouds, to distributed 
> computing in lots of different PCs – with possibly HP´s The Machine and other 
> similar approaches changing the paradigm again  in some time – in its history 
> so far? How often many people thought that this is the final end in itself?
> 
> However I am not into predicting the future. Yet, I am into shaping it. If I 
> assess what path I want to choose here, for me its a path that utilizes a 
> central source for all stuff I install onto my server. I will see how far 
> along I get with it. So far I got away with it quite okayish and I have been 
> pleased with the work Debian´s owncloud packaging team.
> 
> If I only went with trends in my life, I wouldn´t have chosen a vegan life 
> style – 20 years ago.

You're right, none of us can predict the future and sometimes, not bending with the prevailing winds works out. I'm still a fan of Linux and its desktops, that ain't the easiest road either. Sadly.

So if you feel this is a temporary craze, well, we'll see.

> I still hope that at some time Owncloud upstream and distro packagers can work 
> more closely together again – maybe there is a common ground between using 
> distro infrastructure and using Github, Open Build Service and other key 
> points where goals and needs differ. But I am also wise enough that I can only 
> choose my actions and how I create my world. Not decide what others shall do. 
> Creating always starts within myself.

Amen.

Cheers,
Jos

> Thank you,
> 

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusion_of_control

-- 
Disclaimer:
Everything I do and say is based on my view of the world today. I am not responsible for changes in the world, nor my view on it. Everything I say is meant in a positive and friendly way, unless explicitly stated otherwise.
find me on blog.jospoortvliet.com
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