[Pkg-rust-maintainers] Bug#1013920: Bug#1013920: rust-all: Debian violating Rust Trademark (as serious a situation as "iceweasel")

[lkcl]

everything is "fine" as long as:

1) the Mozilla Foundation acts reasonably and non-discriminatorily (FRAND applies to Trademarks just as it applies to patent Licensing)
2) the Mozilla Foundation does not appreciate quite how much power it actually has under Trademark Law.

given that this is between Free Software Groups i would expect the discussion to remain civil and reasonable, and for them to drop or modify the unachievable nonfree constraint, but please for goodness sake do not let the civility of the interaction lull you into a sense of false safety.

under the Trademark as they have defined it, the Mozilla Foundation is perfectly permitted to issue Debian a Legal Notice to Cease and Desist distribution of the Unlawfully patched rustc binaries.

l.




On June 27, 2022 1:07:14 PM GMT+01:00, Sylvestre Ledru <sylvestre at debian.org> wrote:
>Hello
>
>I don't think it is a big deal but I will chat with some people on the
>Rust side about this.
>
>Cheers,
>Sylvestre (who managed the iceweasel/firefox thing)
>
>
>Le 27/06/2022 à 13:52, lkcl a écrit :
>> Package: rust-all
>> Severity: serious
>> Tags: upstream
>> Justification: Policy 2.1
>> 
>> https://internals.rust-lang.org/t/rust-s-freedom-flaws/11533
>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2021/05/msg00006.html
>>
>https://foundation.rust-lang.org/policies/logo-policy-and-media-guide/
>> 
>> this is an extremely serious situation that exposes debian to a
>greater
>> level of risk that was undergone for the last Mozilla-Foundation
>> Trademark fiasco, iceweasel
>> 
>> Rust's Trademark requirements are that "you must seek our explicit
>> permission before distributing patches".
>> 
>>      Uses that require explicit approval
>> 
>>      Distributing a **MODIFIED VERSION** of the Rust programming
>language
>>      or the Cargo package manager and calling it Rust or Cargo
>requires
>>      explicit, written permission from the Rust core team.
>> 
>> there are dozens of such patches and every single one of them, unless
>> explicit permission has been sought, is a DIRECT Trademark violation
>> 
>>      https://sources.debian.org/patches/rustc/1.36.0+dfsg1-2/
>> 
>> the over-ride of the Trademark on "Free" software is Lawful and
>> in this case makes rust (and cargo) non-free software.
>> 
>> unlike the Iceweasel debacle, the linux kernel is upstream merging
>> rust, potentially making the entire linux kernel critically dependent
>> on a non-free compiler.
>> 
>> there is the additional issue that although Debian might seek and
>> be granted explicit permission for a Trademark License Grant to
>> Distribute, that does not cover Derivatives, which would also
>> need to explicitly seek their own permission
>> 
>>      https://www.debian.org/derivatives/
>>      https://devuan.org
>> 
>> this has been discussed that DFSG Guideline 8 is violated by even
>> attempting to seek a License specific to Debian
>> 
>>     
>https://www.mail-archive.com/debian-legal@lists.debian.org/msg45464.html
>> 
>> this is an extremely serious situation that either requires pulling
>> rust and cargo from debian or a rename of both rust and cargo exactly
>> as was done with iceweasel.
>> 
>> failure to do so is also extremely serious because Unlawful
>Distribution
>> may still be considered grounds for financial compensation as well as
>> a Legal Notice to Cease and Desist, and also to remove all public and
>private
>> use of the Trademark from all Records.  mailing lists, bugtracker,
>> debian archives - everything.
>> 
>> this one cannot be ignored.
>> 
>> 
>> -- System Information:
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Pkg-rust-maintainers at alioth-lists.debian.net
>>
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