Bug#1031046: Only include in Bookworm with commitment to stable updates

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting Martin Rampersad via Pkg-voip-maintainers (2024-12-14 04:19:03)
> > Why later? Whay not now?
> 
> My efforts to close this bug have failed.

The goal of this bug is not to have it closed, but to establish routines
that makes it unlikely for this bug to need reopening.

> I have already said the same thing as Marco: That I would do it, and stated my
> use case as he did. I can only assume his offer was deemed reliable because he
> has a proven track record within the Debian community, which I don't have.
> That is reasonable.
> 
> His timing was better too, somehow. From what I can tell, he was not part of
> the varnish team before it was at risk of removal. He joined because he has
> 150 varnish deployments. My timing seems to be very common for people who just
> want to get their package in the door. You have commented negatively on this. I
> get that.
> 
> From what I can tell, refusing to file a bug with the tracker pseudo-package
> inadvertently caused some offence.
> 
> To carefully file this bug requires me to first believe that the 161 existing
> bug reports are not relevant. Once I find my bug is unique, I need to follow a
> fairly lengthy guide for filing a bug report the right way. As someone "new
> around here" I am extremely reluctant to file a bug in a way that deviates
> from this guide.
> 
> I called it a side quest. You said I lacked "enthusiasm".
> I asked you to confirm if it was necessary, and this is "disturbing" to you.
> 
> The "narrowly defined duties" I wish to stick to consist of learning the salsa
> platform, gbp, the debian build recipe, and how to backport patches
> specifically for asterisk and other vendored dependencies. To me this is
> already a considerable courseload for someone who was previously just a user.
> 
> I think you are looking for a specific type of person for this task, someone
> who is willing to go above and beyond for all things Debian or perhaps around
> here it is the minimum.
> 
> You are a 20+ year veteran and although you cannot close this bug,
> your words carry a lot of weight. Moritz may read your opinions and,
> I think, wait for another candidate.

So you do experience this as a Fight Club entrance door situation.
Sorry for creating that atmosphere!

Any of us, you included, can close this bugreport, but if done through
empty words, someone else (Moritz or others) may very well reopen it.
I don't know the best way forward from here. Possibly the best way
forward is to try let asterisk into stable and see if this new team we
have now can muster it.

Perhaps asking the question in debian-devel at l.d.o is sensible? Or
perhaps asking leader at d.o for advice? I don't know, and any of us in
this team are in principle equally welcome to try out options.

Your approach seems to be to do as little as possible, and that, only
that, is what I argued against - not your "candidacy" for team
membership: You *are* a member of the team, by stepping up and wanting
to be.

Sure, my 20+ years of experience almost by definition means that I am
more suited to talk to the security team or to handle bugreports or to
raise issues in debian-devel or with the leader of Debian, due to my
experience. But should I? How does collaboration work in this team?
What do others in this team want to work together? Do we just commit
patches to git "together", and I do the rest?

> I truly appreciate all the time you've taken to speak with me.

I am looking for someone willing to interact with the Debian bugtracker,
because as I see it - or "in my experience", to put weight on it -
interaction with the bug tracker is central to dealing with patches in
Debian, especially for newcomers that may not be used to email-based bug
handling and may not be used to the Debian way of packaging - despite
(in my own case) years of building *from* Debian packages.

I consider sloppy interaction with Debbugs better than avoidance.

I don't think it is fair to frame that as "going above and beyond for
all things Debian". I would agree to frame it as going above and beyond
just fixing bugs.

That is one way this team could work, though: You new folks just
narrowly fix bugs, and I do whatever else tasks involved in maintenance
of an official Debian package. Is that the level of engagement for you
new folks in this team?

What this bugreport is asking for is not *closing* bugs, but *dealing*
with them, which involves interaction with the Debian bug tracker.  And
the concern I raised was that I am not sure that I can muster the tasks
besides narrowly patching, on my own.

In other words: I need you, even if your commitment is narrowly on only
patching, but then I think (I am not sure, so feel free to convince me
differently), that I then need more than you.

 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
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