[Python-modules-team] Bug#551926: cannot be installed together with pip or pip-python
ianb at colorstudy.com
Tue Mar 23 17:10:29 UTC 2010
> > No one asked or even suggested I rename pip when I announced the name,
> > someone merely noted that a tool with the same name existed.
> I would consider an existing Perl, Python, PHP in any of the big repositories with the same command line a huge red flag, because automated packages methods exist for all of these and it's pretty obvious that there's going to be a naming clash in the downstream. If not immediately, then certainly inevitably.
It wasn't packaged in any repository I looked in. As noted,
python-pip entered Debian testing first, while the Perl pip languished
> > * I've invested significantly in the pip name and idea. I see no evidence
> > of any such investment for Perl's pip. Zero.
> I'm not sure what you mean by this. What kind of information am I supposed to provide here that you haven't found? I can't see any evidence of expensive trade marks, or a company named after it, or even of it's own domain (it's hosted under The Open Planning Project website). And as for the idea of installing packages from a repository, we've all probably invested way too much time in our respective toolchains.
When researching project names I look to web searches to determine if
a name is unique enough, no name is perfectly unique so I have to
settle for "unique enough". Outside of CPAN Perl's pip is completely
invisible. If I search for "perl pip" I get a few CPAN pages, a
couple automated emails about packaging, a bunch of stuff about the
Python pip, and references to this name conflict. I thought I saw
something at number 19:
http://ericholscher.com/blog/2009/nov/5/adding-testing-pip/ ... but
no, it's referring to Perl and CPAN and Python pip. At 23 I see a
reference to Strawberry
(http://szabgab.com/blog/2010/01/1263492546.html). From there I start
seeing threads that include someone named Pip, or other unrelated
As for investment, work is an investment, and I and many people have
written extensively about pip and discussed it online. A domain was
purchased a while back (pip-installer.org) but we haven't switched
over yet so it just redirects. I consider work around project
identity to be real work, and that perspective is directly reflected
in the web search results -- compare a search of "python pip" to a
search of "perl pip".
Lastly, the matter of users and the confusion of a Debian-specific
rename of a script: many packages refer specifically to "pip install
mypackage" in their instructions. Here is a list of packages that
specifically refer to "pip install" in their docs on PyPI:
http://bit.ly/bNjfDf -- if Debian renames pip those instructions will
not work if you use python-pip. I'm not sure what equivalent search I
might do for Perl pip, "pip p5i" shows only two relevant results.
Even if people are discussing these things on IRC, you'd expect
someone to document installation instructions, wouldn't you? pip p5i
plan files are something that is reasonable to put in version control,
so I'd expect something better than this for search results:
http://bit.ly/9C4dUo (compare to: http://bit.ly/d9ONni)
More information about the Python-modules-team