[Pkg-exim4-users] Exim.conf file

[Marc Haber]

On Wed, Apr 05, 2006 at 09:44:14AM +0200, Jeremiah Foster wrote:
> On Tue, 2006-04-04 at 19:59 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> > On Mon, Apr 03, 2006 at 07:30:29PM +0200, Jeremiah Foster wrote:
> > > This is part of the problem with the debian package, there are too many
> > > weird files! I mean update-exim4.conf.conf? That is a really bad name.
> > > This is the reason I use the tar file from exim's web site and do not
> > > use the package under debian.
> > 
> > That might be fine for you, but it is really really bad advice for the
> > vast majority of the people on this list.
> > 
> You may be right, you may not. I think that I learned more about exim by
> reading their documentation.

expand "their"

> Furthermore, you fail to acknowledge the flawed naming scheme,

elaborate please

> paucity of documentation,

$ < /usr/share/doc/exim4-base/README.Debian.gz gunzip | wc -l
1124

and yet the vast majority of questions asked is already answered in
that file. There are also multiple wiki pages regarding the Debian
exim 4 packages.

> and unnecessary complexity of the debian package.

Please explain how things could be done simpler without losing the
Debconf configuration, which is required by Debian policy.

If you can do it any better, please go ahead and do so. If you can't
do it better, stfu and stop spreading FUD.

> > Building exim from source needs _much_ more knowledge than installing
> > the Debian package, and getting exim to run from source needs like ten
> > times the documentation study that Debian needs.
> 
> As many have stated on this list and the exim list, you have to read a
> lot of documentation before you run a mail server. 

Which is basically correct. However, if you only need to run a very
basic service, dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config is all you need, the rest
is automatic. If you want to do something we didn't see fit to include
in the debconf scheme, you'll need to read. And you're likely to find
out that it is quite easy to adapt our configuration to your needs.

On the other side, if you build exim from source, you'll basically
start from scratch, configuration-wise, and will need to read even
more documentation, and are like to make mistakes that we thought of
when preparing our configuration. We have actually thought about
things when writing the Debian default config, and I seriously doubt
that anybody with less than a year of exim experience is able to
produce a configuration which is even in the same quality range.

Additionally, as you have been pointed to multiple times in this
thread, it is perfectly possible to use your own hand-crafted
configuration with the Debian exim4 package. It is all in the docs,
and prominently so.

> > The people on exim-users expect people to be in good control of their
> > OS, which the OP is not.
> > 
> You do not know this, you have no right to assume this.

The OP has a problem which is mentioned in the sarge release notes,
including a solution. And he refuses to follow the advice given here.

I'd call that "not in control of the OS".

> You drive people away from debian by being unhelpful and rude when
> they come to this list with problems,

Asking questions that have answers in the docs is rude of themselves
as well.

> it is not for you to say whether they are sufficiently competent in
> your eyes. 

I happen to have a little experience with end-users. Please allow me
to use my experience to come to judgments.

If you want me to leave this list, please say so.

> I found much more help from people on the main exim list which is why I
> tell people to download the package from upstream and use the main exim
> mailing list. Plus the documentation is simply better.
> 
> Furthermore, the OP thanked me when his system was up and running, so my
> goal of trying to help in a pleasant manner may have helped.

So you have helped him to a locally-built, locally configured exim
which will not be updated code- or configuration-wise and will not
receive security patches? Well, I'll call that a tremendously huge
disservice. Be proud, not everybody is able to be _that_
counterproductive.

Greetings
Marc

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Marc Haber         | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
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